Soulful Detroit SoulfulDetroit Music Forum ::: Motown Topics ::: Gladys Knight..Until you come back to me Previous Next

Author Message
Top of pageBottom of page

Skool dem (skooldem1)
6-Zenith
Username: skooldem1

Post Number: 3234
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 2:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember reading somewhere that when Stevie was writing this song, he would call on Gladys to sing different parts- to get it all together. She was surprised when he gave the song to Aretha and was quite upset about it.

"Until you come back to me" is one of my, if not my favorite Aretha Franklin song. How do you think Glady's would have sounded singing this? I feel she may have sounded good (when doesn't she sound good) but this track is Aretha Franklin all the way.

Did the long standing feud between Aretha and Gladys start here, or was it earlier?
Top of pageBottom of page

Motown_Fan (motown_fan)
6-Zenith
Username: motown_fan

Post Number: 4381
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 2:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stevie wrote Until You Come Back in the Sixties, right?

Is this when he would call Gladys to sing the different parts to him?

I can hear Gladys doing that song. Come to think of it, the way Stevie & Aretha sang & phrased certain words and lyrics does sound like what Gladys would have done.

But the so-called Gladys/Aretha "feud" probably didn't start there.
Who knows when the feud started exactly?

And they aren't really feuding verbally or physically with each other, Aretha just tends to sometimes ignore Gladys whenever they're in the same space.

I do know when Gladys & the Pips lived in Detroit. They were very sociable when the weren't working. They'd throw little parties and invite people. Aretha was one of them, but I don't think she ever showed up.

Guess someone took this personally.

Gladys wrote about some slight by Aretha in her biography.

If I remember it was about Aretha not speaking to her or Bubba when they approached Aretha some place. And Gladys told Bubba she suspected that Aretha didn't like her for some reason. Perhaps Aretha heard the comment.

Gladys bringing up Until You Come Back To Me is not going to smooth things out between them.

But Aretha's ex, Ted white, was friendly with Gladys and the Pips.

I know Ted & Teddy White attended a review that Gladys & the Pips headlined in 1969 at the Fox Theater. The Whites were backstage, but Aretha wasn't. Now that I remember it, Ted White & Aretha were divorcing around that time.

But I think things got really strained when critics & writers began saying Gladys was one of Aretha's closest competitors for the queen of soul thing.

Ree doesn't like that kind of thing. She is hypersensitive, in my opinion. And she's usually not speaking to someone most of the time.

Just ask Mavis Staples. I don't think she & Aretha have gotten over their falling out over the One Lord...album.


(Message edited by motown_fan on March 15, 2010)
Top of pageBottom of page

Reese (reese)
6-Zenith
Username: reese

Post Number: 2407
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 4:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According to Gladys, when they first met as teenagers, Gladys went over to Aretha, welcomed her to Atlanta, and held out her hand for a shake. She said Aretha looked at her as if she had dropped out of a spaceship, and turned her back without speaking. Since then, Gladys says there have been times when they have been friendly. Yet there are other times when their relationship goes into the deep freeze.

After reading Aretha's book, I don't think she cares for Gladys much. I also think that Aretha is very competitive, and very territorial. She takes her Queen title seriously and doesn't seem to like it much when others come into her area, like Gladys or Natalie Cole. Motown even called Gladys LADY KNIGHT in the liner notes on one of her early Motown albums, surely trying to emulate Aretha's title LADY SOUL. I'm sure that didn't go over well with Ree. She couldn't even take it when Tina Turner was called the Queen at the Grammys a few years back.
Top of pageBottom of page

Motown_Fan (motown_fan)
6-Zenith
Username: motown_fan

Post Number: 4384
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 4:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Reese, I'd guess Gladys' & Aretha's relationship is in the deep freeze now.

Mavis Staples said Aretha has earned every accolade there is and is regarded as one of the greatest ever, yet she can be very insecure and competitive with other singers.

It's always been this way.

Dinah Washington fussed out Etta James once for singing one of her songs; Mavis Staples has been critical of Patti Labelle, saying she sang too loud.

Even recently, Keysha Cole said Mary J. Blige snubbed her when she was trying to get started, but now that Keysha has a track record, Mary is friendly.

Mary J. said Aretha was frosty towards her at one point.

I guess it's human nature to be jealous and competitive at times. I know I'm guilty too.

(Message edited by motown_fan on March 15, 2010)
Top of pageBottom of page

Reese (reese)
6-Zenith
Username: reese

Post Number: 2408
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 4:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The last time I heard either Gladys or Aretha speak about any feud was back in the late 90s,in their respective biographies. In her book, Aretha mentioned her displeasure at some comments that Gladys and Cissy had made about her mother.

But since then, Aretha did include a photo of Gladys (and Les Brown) in her 2003 tour book. And Cissy has done background for her on some tours. So maybe things are looking up.
Top of pageBottom of page

Motown_Fan (motown_fan)
6-Zenith
Username: motown_fan

Post Number: 4385
Registered: 9-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 5:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reese, I'm just more cynical than you.

Was Aretha in the photo with Gladys & Les Brown?

That's so peculiar, but just like Aretha to include in her tour book a pic of Gladys and hubby No. whatever Les Brown was. A little jab at Gladys. Note: Gladys & Les Brown divorced in the late 1990s, but Ree has a pic of them in her 2003 tour book.

And sure she'd have Cissy Houston singing backup for her. Isn't that what Cissy has always done - sung behind Aretha?

Reese, did you ever read Tony Heilbut's book on Gospel Music/singers where Delores Barrett discussed the competitive rivalries among some gospel singers.

She said Mahalia Jackson
often refered to her as "little Delores."
She felt it was a subtle way of Mahalia reminding Delores to stay in her place and letting her know she was a good singer, but not as good as Mahalia.

Mel Carter said the same thing about Sam Cooke. Sam admired Mel as a singer, but told him he would never be as good a singer as he (Cooke) was. Mel says that was just how some singers were.

Aretha learned from Mahalia, Sam and others.


(Message edited by motown_fan on March 15, 2010)
Top of pageBottom of page

Reese (reese)
6-Zenith
Username: reese

Post Number: 2409
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 6:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I vaguely recall reading Heilbut's book as a teenager. I'm sure its true that all of the singers we've mentioned have displayed some "diva" tendencies.

:-)
Top of pageBottom of page

John Lester (theboyfromxtown)
6-Zenith
Username: theboyfromxtown

Post Number: 4099
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 5:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember in Martha Reeves' book that Aretha attended one of her concerts and got uptight about Martha singing one of her songs.

Aretha has no problem when the situation arises in reverse. It's My Turn, You're All I Need To Get By, I Say A Little Prayer, It's In His Kiss etc.

It's sad. This world is big enough for all and everyone.
Top of pageBottom of page

HW (hwume)
1-Arriviste
Username: hwume

Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 11:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just an FYI:

Years ago I attended an R&B Foundation Awards dinner where Stevie gave Gladys an award. In his introduction speech he related the story of how he intended "Until You Come Back To Me" for her when they were together at Motown circa 1966-early 70s, but touring schedules got in the way of their collaboration at that time. He of course recorded it himself in '67.

(Message edited by hwume on March 15, 2010)
Top of pageBottom of page

copley (copley)
6-Zenith
Username: copley

Post Number: 1045
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 2:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Harry. I'm surprised that Gladys has never recorded it.
Top of pageBottom of page

jobeterob (jobeterob)
6-Zenith
Username: jobeterob

Post Number: 7922
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 2:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

These little spats with Aretha surface all over the place; they actually don't attract too much attention. I think the reason they don't is because Aretha has always been popular but she never reached that pinnacle that Whitney Houston or Diana Ross or Beyonce reached in the mass market. I also think there are so many Aretha stories out there together with the financial ones that you don't know which to choose. And also because of the superlative voice, perhaps there is a reluctance to criticize her.

I recall there was some American Music Awards where Dick Clark had to go running out to help her because she got pissed off while presenting an Award.

She probably has a "fat lady" complex; they always think they are being picked on because they are fat so they have a short fuse.

Whoever asked me on the other thread, yes.....even my ears are sunburned. So I might not take all these threads as seriously as I do when I'm at home.
Top of pageBottom of page

Marv (marv2)
6-Zenith
Username: marv2

Post Number: 2928
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 3:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aretha has not reached the pinnacle of a Whitney, Diane or who? oh yeah Beyonce.......LOL!!!! This is the funniest thing I've read in a very long time! Thanks Jobeterob.... hehehehehehehe.....
Top of pageBottom of page

JSmith (jsmith)
6-Zenith
Username: jsmith

Post Number: 5375
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 3:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aaayyy ..... that Reffa was rubbish commercially ....
I mean she only ever managed 89 US national chart entries with a mere 20 of those being No.1's.
.... if only she had managed to realise her potential.
Top of pageBottom of page

Marv (marv2)
6-Zenith
Username: marv2

Post Number: 2929
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 3:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah JSmith and she only won something like eighteen (18) Grammy Awards! They only call on her to sing at the greatest National Events because they feel sorry for her for not reaching the pinnacle! LOL!!!!!! I am still near tears laughing here...... woooo, LOL!!!!

Aretha, you slacker! HAHAHAHAHA!!!! OMG!
Top of pageBottom of page

No Place Like Motown (no_place_like_motown)
6-Zenith
Username: no_place_like_motown

Post Number: 1132
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 7:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good to hear from you, HW!

I can certainly hear Gladys doing UYCBTM. It's too bad she never got the opportunity to record the song during her time at Motown. On that note, I wish Hip-O would reconsider releasing that L&F set on GK&TP that we never got. I would really love to hear the group's unissued recordings, especially circa 1966-67.