Soulful DetroitArchives - July 2009 � Phillipe Wynne Joins Parliament-Funkadelic article Previous Next

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Pshark (pshark)
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Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 4:32 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Click image to enlarge
http://i164.photobucket.com/al bums/u7/Sharkadelic/PW.jpg
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Pshark (pshark)
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Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 6:33 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PW singing Uncle Jam w/ P-Funk live in concert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =2uBX7enW91U
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tsull (tsull)
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Round hole, square peg, didn't fit, didn't work.

When Phillipe told the Spinners manager he was leaving, the manager said, "You're crazy, you fit the Spinners like a glove!"

Wynne: "That's YOUR opinion.

Why do people make this insane decisions?! Well, actually I know the answer: ego.
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Pshark (pshark)
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Why should he have stayed with the Spinners if he wasn't happy anymore? It was time for him to move on. He had a major hit singing lead on Funkadelic's (Not Just) Knee Deep. So his decision was a good one at the time. He was part of the Pacesetters w/ Bootsy Collins way before he joined the Spinners. Pacesetters soon joined Funkadelic. Funkadelic didn't need a new singer at the time so Phillipe joined the Spinners
http://www.soulwalking.co.uk/P hilippe%20Wynne.html
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tsull (tsull)
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To be honest, a lot of Phillipe's unhappiness was his own doing. I can't imagine why all those top 10 hits and sold-out concerts with the Spinners made him so darn unhappy.
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Timmy Funk (timmyfunk)
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On the surface it may have looked like a round peg/square hole scenario, but as PShark outlined, his history with P-Funk is a lot more than singing the outro to "Knee Deep". I'm sure that a lot of Northern Soul fans dug the P-Funk produced "Wynne Jammin'" from 1980 as well.
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Kdubya (paladin)
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Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 8:47 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe we'll never know Tsull. Sometimes these guys make it, other times they don't. Vocal groups usually have a "two edged sword" with both edges focused on the group dynamic which cuts one or two ways one leads them to fame and fortune and other times to ego and ruin.

Bad examples: Temptations/Spinners

Good examples: Four Tops/Dells

Like Jimi Hendrix said : Who Knows ?



(Message edited by Paladin on November 08, 2009)
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Pshark (pshark)
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Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 8:56 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TSULL: "To be honest, a lot of Phillipe's unhappiness was his own doing. I can't imagine why all those top 10 hits and sold-out concerts with the Spinners made him so darn unhappy."

Boredom
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splanky (splanky)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 8:01 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone who knows P funk's history knows it often featured great input from artists that had been previously part or even leads in other acts. Whether it was Junie from the Ohio Players, Jessica Cleaves from Earth Wind and Fire, or even Bootsy Collins and Maceo Parker from JB. Though they were different in a lot of ways and they publicly acknowledged it, I'm sorry, tsull, but to say it didn't work is a mistake. Knee Deep and Uncle Jam were big selling hits. I saw that tour and they ripped the funking roof off the top of the Carolina Coliseum back then. As a Spinner Phillipe would often go off with his vocal gymnastics which drove his producers crazy and they would ask him to reign it in. In Funkadelic George let him him release himself. Yes, he did have an ego, hell, who didn't? but he also had a lot of inner turmoil, coincidentally as did Jessica Cleaves who walked away from 2 bands before, EWF and Friends Of Distinction. When she first started to record w/ George on Funkadelic's Tales of Kidd Funkadelic she literally ran out of the studio freaked out by what she first heard as " the devil's music".
Anyway, though Wynne Jammin didn't hit as Phillipe hoped, his other work can't be ignored. Sadly a heart attack canceled a future shot. All of this brings to mind a second question for me:
Out of all of the successful collaborations between GC and a number of other artists what happened in the studio with George and James Brown? Did they fight or something? If you listen to George and Sly on Funk Gets Stronger you hear the celebration of two greats coming together. It's a killer. When Sly paraphrases their shared idol Lee Dorsey with the line "Everything I do from now on is gonna be funky..." you feel the promise. Listen to the JB/GC "duet" and it's broken. What happened there? I've never heard anyone talk about why it failed...
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tsull (tsull)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 4:52 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I think the fact that he's singing "Love Don't Love Nobody" and "Sadie" at Funkadelic concerts is kind of odd.

Oh well. I liked Phillipe, magnificant talent. Like Ruffin, the talent comes with some baggage, too.

* "I like Parliment, but not Funkadelic." -- Marge Simpson on her first date with Homer.
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splanky (splanky)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 5:29 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phillipe had a reputation he was quite proud of and many P funk fans had also known and loved his work in the Spinners. For those who didn't or forgot it was a great way to introduce them to who Phillipe was. George gave him his own set and I never heard anyone complain about it in the past 30 years until YOU did today!LOL...There was nothing odd about it.
As for the Simpson reference, I don't get it, I've never watched the show though I do know Marge is not a real person, is she?...
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tsull (tsull)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 7:33 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I still think Phillipe singing Spinners ballads at a funk concert is weird ... maybe it's just me.

OK, in the past 20 years I've never heard of a person who has never watched the Simpsons, so we're even.

Here you go ... Marge (the future Mrs. Simpson) and Homer (Simpson) are on their first date and they're talking about what they like, dislikes and likes, music, food, etc. Marge says she likes Parliment, but not Funkadelic. I thought it was funny when I saw it.

Also, when Bart's friend Millhouse steals Bart's girlfriend, they play The O'Jay's "Use To Be My Girl." It's actually a fun show.

... You know who Bart Simpson is, right? :>)
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Timmy Funk (timmyfunk)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 7:53 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Splank, the way that I heard it, JB wanted that record to come out under his name and didn't want to share the performers credits. GC wasn't having it. That's the reason why JB's voice was stripped from the version that appears on "Go Fer Yer Funk".
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Pshark (pshark)
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Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 7:59 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most Funk bands sings ballad and do it well. There was a video on youtube w/PW & P-Funk singing Sadie. To see Wynne & Ray Davis singing together, priceless.
Simpsons originated on the Tracy Ullman Show and George Clinton did the theme. And here's another P-Funk-Simpsons connection, GC sings "She'S Comin Out Swingin" on The Simpson's Yellow Album> http://www.imeem.com/artists/t he_simpsons/album/RhByt542/the -yellow-album-album/



(Message edited by Pshark on November 09, 2009)
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splanky (splanky)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 6:54 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pshark, I don't know if you or many other folks
outside of New York know this but The Simpsons
actually orignated as a satirical cartoon in the Village Voice, a weekly NY newspaper that has always leaned to the left. When it was introduced to television I never bothered to watch it because I was already familiar with Bart's character, didn't feel it was worth planning my weekly activities around and was weaned off of television. Yes, I knew about GC and Tracey and seen a few of her shows, even met her in 1989 or 90 (great lady, btw) but never caught Simpson fever.
You're right about funk bands and ballads, though. I think we've discussed this before; maybe tsull would've have felt better if Phillipe had sung I Miss My Baby during his set.
Tim, I'd kill to hear what that track sounded like before JB's vocals were virtually sanded off of it!...
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Soulster (soulster)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 7:59 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's just another example of artists who make dumb mistakes.
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Chi Drummer (chidrummer)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 10:13 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey splanky, I remember the Simpsons from the Village Voice and locally through The Reader here in Chicago.

PShark, wasn't Phillipe part of Houseguests not The Pacesetters or have I got that wrong? I do remember running into him in some of the clubs in Cincinnati after he'd left The Spinners. It's a shame what happened to him, there would have been some more hits for sure.
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Timmy Funk (timmyfunk)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 10:49 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I still don't see the mistake. Phillippe's association with P-Funk resulted in some top level recordings, as well as his prominent vocals on a number one hit. And the way that GC tells it, you couldn't keep PW away from the Knee Deep recording. He was itching to get on that record.

Mistake...I don't think so.
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Pshark (pshark)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 11:42 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chi, check this out this quote:
They were broke but they'd never have to wear tuxes onstage again. Enlisting Philippe Wynne, who'd sung with the Pacesetters, they formed the Houseguests, their own band with their own rules and visuals for the glam-rock '70s.
Here's the rest of the artcle> http://www.jukeboxalive.com/bo otsycollins

Why are guys tripping? Maybe I should stop uploading my scans.
I Agree with Tim. I don't see what kind of "mistake" he made or how its a "fault". Lets call it it like it is, a "decision". He was an adult, he was allowed to make some of those.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Spinners but they couldn't fill a large arena as headliners. Smaller clubs yes. I haven't seen the Spinners live but I did seen clip of them in concert. It just seems like the same routine and he probably got tired of it.

Splanky are you sure that the comic didn't come after the Tracy Ullman Show? From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M att_Groening
Matthew Abram Groening (pronounced /ˈgreɪnɪŋ/ , GRAY-ning; born February 15, 1954)[1] is an American cartoonist, screenwriter and producer. He is the creator of the comic strip Life in Hell and the television series The Simpsons and Futurama.

Groening made his first professional cartoon sale of Life in Hell to the avant-garde Wet magazine in 1978. The cartoon is still carried in 250 weekly newspapers. Life in Hell caught the attention of James L. Brooks. In 1985, Brooks contacted Groening with the proposition of working in animation for the Fox variety show The Tracey Ullman Show. Originally, Brooks wanted Groening to adapt his Life in Hell characters for the show. Fearing the loss of ownership rights, Groening decided to create something new and came up with a cartoon family, the Simpsons, and named the members after his own parents and sisters � while Bart was an anagram of the word brat. The shorts would be spun off into their own series: The Simpsons, which has since aired 445 episodes in 21 seasons. In 1997, Groening got together with David X. Cohen and developed Futurama, an animated series about life in the year 3000, which premiered in 1999. After four years on the air, the show was canceled by Fox in 2003, but Comedy Central commissioned 16 new episodes from four direct-to-DVD movies. In June 2009, Comedy Central ordered 26 new episodes of Futurama, to be aired over two seasons.

Groening has won 11 Primetime Emmy Awards, ten for The Simpsons and one for Futurama as well as a British Comedy Award for "outstanding contribution to comedy" in 2004. In 2002, he won the National Cartoonist Society Reuben Award for his work on Life in Hell.
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Wonder B (wonder_b)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 5:57 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tsull said : 'OK, in the past 20 years I've never heard of a person who has never watched the Simpsons, so we're even. '

Guess what? You just found one! I never watched the Simpsons... Well I watched it once and it didn't make me laugh one bit so I stopped! LOL

Dr House makes me laugh much more!
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splanky (splanky)
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Pshark, You're right. The show The Simpsons did spin off from Tracey's show where it began as shorts. What I meant to say but didn't do very well is that the characters and style had begun in the comics Groening had published in papers like the Voice which is where many first saw them before he hooked up the deal with Tracey's people. Life in Hell was my introduction to his work. Second, don't stop posting your scans. Some of enjoy them. I guess the best advice for all of here could come from Bart:
Don't have a cow, man! :-)....
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Richard Heaney (the_chicks_call_me__slick)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 9:02 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On the album version of (Not Just) Knee Deep, near the end, there's a kind of country piece of singing, roughly it was "doi dee dee doi dee doi doi" followed by lyrics something like "oh but your music moves me, it grooves me"

Is it Phillippe who is singing that part? I thought it was really funky at the time.
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Pshark (pshark)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 2:47 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Splanky, don't worry about me having a cow, I'm a vegetarian:-)
I remember the LIH comic way back in the mid 80's. Really didn't do anything for me. Just looked in wiki, its now called Life Is Swell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L ife_in_Hell
Yes Richard that is Wynne. Knee Deep is far from my favorite Funkadelic tracks(I'm more into their bluesy psychedelic stuff),but the vocals are superb. I heard the a capella vers and it blew me away.
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Timmy Funk (timmyfunk)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 4:52 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hell, Knee Deep is one of my all time favorite jams, period! That song is a groove masterpiece.
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doowopsvoice (doowopsvoice)
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Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 10:20 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Soulwalking page does not go into detail about Phil leaving and he was not bored. He wanted to record a Gospel album (solo) but the group was opposed to the idea. He told them that they could have an equal share in the royalties but they still said no. That was what convinced him to leave.

Phil probably thought that the group that he helped elevate from the bottom of the Soul group ladder to the top, should have shown a little more respect. They never had a string of hits until Phil & Thom Bell added their input. They made the mistake.
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Pshark (pshark)
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Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 11:27 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doowop, read the last 2 paragraph of the article I posted
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Heikki (heikki)
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Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 1:08 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi!

Michael Walker, the brother of Philip Walker aka Philippe Wynne, tells a bit about their early days at
http://www.soulexpress.net/dee p206.htm#michaelwalker
(later he added more comments about Philippe and their family ties and they're somewhere on our site, but I simply couldn't find them in a hurry)
and G.C.Cameron adds that Philippe moved in to live in their home. "We were together before I joined the marines (in '63), and when I came back (in '67) we were together... We were singing, mostly together at the time, as a duo, in Detroit. That was mainly in clubs, especially the club that Dennis Edwards played in."

Bootsy Collins: "I met Phil "Soul" Walker, who the world knows as Philippe Wynne, at a club in Cincy. We were playing one night and he came up and wanted to sit in and sing a few songs. From that night on he was hired. That was the year 1968, before we got with James Brown... We called ourselves the Pacemakers."

First they were known as the Pacesetters, but they had to change their name, as there already existed another recording group by that name.

"When we joined the Godfather, he didn't need a singer, so we told Phil 'don't worry 'bout a thang, we'll get back to get you'. Two years later we were back in Cincy, cocky and ready to get wild and freaky. Once we left Mr. Brown, we called ourselves the Houseguests, formerly the J.B.'s, and Philippe was back with us then. Then we got a call from the Spinners..."

(Soul Express: The Spinners Story, part 3 (1972-1975)

I have to go now, but give me a couple of days and I'll repeat here the comments from the other Spinners guys about Philippe's departure, and I think I have some comments from Ray Davis and George Clinton on Philippe, too.

Best regards
Heikki
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Timmy Funk (timmyfunk)
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Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 5:15 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would definitely like to hear the comments from Ray and George. I've only heard GC speak on PW a few times.
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Richard Heaney (the_chicks_call_me__slick)
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Pshark I agree with you Funkadelic's older stuff was much better than Knee Deep.

I haven't listened to the album version for donkey's years, but when I was younger I loved Phillipe's singing on the track.
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Heikki (heikki)
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Hi!

I think I posted some of these comments on Philippe's departure already a few years ago, but I briefly repeat them.

As already mentioned, in the Blues & Soul article at that time Philippe mentioned that he wanted to enter the ministry. He also wanted to get more involved in writing and producing. He also stated that during the last year and a half with the Spinners strings and horns became too dominant and he didn't get a chance to show his versatility. Those were his own words.

On stage John Edwards had replaced Philippe already earlier.

Henry Fambrough: "Philippe was taken sick in 1975. We asked John to take his place. John toured with us for about six weeks, and when Philippe came back and then decided he was gonna leave again, we contacted John to replace him and he agreed..."

Billy Henderson: "...Philippe wanted to come back before, but we wouldn't let him... There was a lot of pressure on John. In philadelphia - where we were recording, so it was really dangerous - we got three standing ovations that day. Philippe had sent spies down there to see, if we can make it. Then Philippe wanted to come back earlier, but we said 'no, we got a contract with the man. We gotta finish it out'."

In early 1977 Philippe left for good.

Henry: "He wanted to go on his own and he said he wanted to do some spiritual work by himself. We tried to get him to stay, but he was determined to go out on his own and there wasn't anything we could do about it.

Bobbie Smith: "I think it was the ego problems, but he said he left because he wanted to do spirituals, although he never did one."

Billy: "Let me tell you like Jesse Jackson said. He was someplace in Chicago and Philippe ran up to him, in his dressing room, and then Khalia Ali came and Philippe went out to greet her. Jesse said 'you better watch that man. Whatever goes up, gotta come down. Whenever a man is confused about his religion, he'll look away to go off any time. I got one religion and I got hell keeping up with that one. That man got two or three'..."

Pervis Jackson: "As a matter of fact, he had done that once before. He got a gig with a group called the Afro Kings. They were all in the service and they were playing the clubs and let Philippe get up and sing. People liked him, so they let him sing with the band. He went back and made another deal with the owner and then messed up their thing, caused them to break up."

After his debut solo album, "Starting All Over", Philippe was talking to Don Davis about his next solo project, when George Clinton came in. Phil appeared on "Uncle Jam Wants You" (Knee Deep and Uncle Jam) and toured with them as "Thrill Sergeant." He lent his voice on five succeeding Parliament/Funkadelic/P-Funk All Stars albums.

Ray Davis: "Philippe was great. He was a down-to-earth person... He had two little boys he used to go around with everywhere he went. He was a real father... He never told me why he left the Spinner, but what I figured by talking to him, he made better off by himself. He made more money by doing his solo thing."

George Clinton: "First I met phil, when he was with Bootsy. I met him in 1969 for a minute, before he became a Spinner. Then we did "Knee Deep", when he was with us, and we did real good with that record. We saw that he was really good and had a sound of his own, so we went and did a whole album with him...

"Philippe was a strong-will person, who knew what he was to do to become somebody. He idolized Sam Cooke and the Isley Brothers. I would have liked to do more than that one album, but at this time we were having some problems from the labels that we had."

After appearing as a guest vocalist on Gene Dunlap's single, releasing an album on Sugarhill (I won't be repeating the producer's, Bunny Sigler's comments here, since it's not on this topic) and a single on Fantasy, Philippe collapsed on stage in 1984.

Best regards
Heikki
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Timmy Funk (timmyfunk)
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Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 6:05 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

George also spoke at length about PW in an interview on BET's "Video Soul" back in 1989, in which he supplied a little more detail on the "Knee Deep" sessions. I'll have to dig it out and transcribe it.

(Message edited by timmyfunk on November 15, 2009)
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doowopsvoice (doowopsvoice)
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Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 7:38 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All things considered, it looks like, at times, Phil said whatever was in his best interest to say and was self motivated. I believed what Phil told me. ?????

I trust that Heikki is telling it as it was told to him.
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splanky (splanky)
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Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 8:21 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll be waiting on that, Tim...
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Timmy Funk (timmyfunk)
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Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 9:51 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

George Clinton speaking on PW. I'm paraphrasing here:

"He used to call me 'bub'. That was his nickname for me. He told me, he said 'Bub, you can't finish that record without me, bub!' You put me on and I'll make that record for you, bub!'And when someone comes at you with that much nerve, you just say 'go 'head'!
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Heikki (heikki)
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Username: heikki

Post Number: 857
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 94.101.4.113
Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 10:18 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi!

I only picked up the excerpts that one way or another deal with Philippe leaving the Spinners.
There's more on Knee Deep and other stuff, but that's another story.

Best regards
Heikki
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Timmy Funk (timmyfunk)
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Username: timmyfunk

Post Number: 2585
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 67.85.134.205
Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 11:23 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You might want to check out this website:

www.thefunkstore.com

You can find alternate mixes of "(not just) Knee Deep" at the site.

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