Soulful DetroitArchives - January 2008 � "Incense" by THE ANGLOS Previous Next

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roger (roger)
6-Zenith
Username: roger

Post Number: 1960
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.40.169.129
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 7:22 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello all ..

I think this should be of special interest to Keith Herschall ..

This mysterious track, which is a very "Spector-ish" production ( a bit similar to IKE & TINA TURNER's "River Deep Mountain High" or his take on "Proud Mary" with SONNY CHARLES & THE CHECKMATES imho ) was a minor hit in Britain in the late 60s .. and has just got a side mention in the current "RIP Jimmy McGriff" thread ..

It was recently included in a Kent/Ace C.D. of material released in the U.K. on the old Sue label.

I've found this snippet of information on it in a Radio London website, where their Fab 40 chart of late May 1965 is discussed, their theory is that it was actually recorded in New York by JIMMY MILLER .. but there have been rumours in Britain for years that it was something to do with STEVIE WINWOOD and THE SPENCER DAVIS GROUP.

http://radiolondon.co.uk/rl/sc rap60/fabforty/65fabs/may65/fa b230565/fab230565.html

Do any of our U.S. based SDF members know this track? Does anyone know for certain who recorded it or where.

Any info would be appreciated ..

Thanks - Roger.
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chess1458 (chess1458)
3-Pundit
Username: chess1458

Post Number: 45
Registered: 4-2008
Posted From: 68.33.144.132
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 7:34 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Roger.Don't Know too Much about it,but maybe this site could help you a little.Best Wishes
Mike


http://www.winwoodfans.com/cs/csrumor.htm#Grech






Grech

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MissMona (missmona)
6-Zenith
Username: missmona

Post Number: 1779
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 159.53.46.143
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 7:48 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought you were talking about Strawberry Alarm Clock's - Incense and Peppermints
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roger (roger)
6-Zenith
Username: roger

Post Number: 1961
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.40.169.129
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 8:02 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grech ..

Thanks for the link .. and great to see a Brit label scan!!

There seem even more theories in your link than there were in the one I posted and about the only constant throughout is JIMMY MILLER ..

Just adds to the mystery doesn't it!!

Has anyone ever seen a U.S. release?


Roger
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boba (boba)
6-Zenith
Username: boba

Post Number: 575
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 99.140.205.93
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 9:27 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is a VIRGINIA group, this also got released on Constellation records and is definitely the same group as on Scepter / Shiptown. Joe Webster sings lead. They had connections to a few other VA groups. I'm pretty sure it has no connection to Steve Winwood, et. al. The guy who puts out those "OL' Virginia soul" comps knows all the details, he told me the membership once but I didn't save the email.
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boba (boba)
6-Zenith
Username: boba

Post Number: 576
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 99.140.205.93
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 9:39 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, the original us label is ORBIT, I can post a scan when I get home from work if it's important
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roger (roger)
6-Zenith
Username: roger

Post Number: 1962
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.40.169.129
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 10:15 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Boba ..

It would be great if you could post a scan of the Orbit 45 ( the U.S. Orbit release gets a mention in both the links that I and Grech posted ).

I know one Scepter release by THE ANGLOS - "Since You've Been Gone" .. which got a U.K. release back in the mid '70s on what is regarded by many as the first "Northern Soul" compilation L.P. .. "Solid Soul Sensations". This included other Scepter/Wand material by artists such as MAXINE BROWN, THE SHIRELLES and CANDY & THE KISSES.

I'd never been sure whether it was the same group, and it would be great if this were cleared up!!

This is the recent C.D. reissue of "Solid Soul Sensations" on sale at Amazon ..

http://www.amazon.com/Solid-So ul-Sensations-Various-Artists/ dp/B0002QPSZ4

Roger
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Keith Herschell (keith_herschell)
5-Doyen
Username: keith_herschell

Post Number: 303
Registered: 6-2004
Posted From: 86.11.93.9
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 10:52 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Roger
Thanks for running with this query of mine. I also got the Pye compilation of Scepter/Wand material back in the mid seventies. It was compiled by Ian Levine, and I seem to recall him writing in the sleeve notes that The Anglos on that compilation had nothing to do with the 'Incence' group, but now it seems that they were one and the same (Thanks boba)
I do know that both had a very raw sounding lead singer.

So Roger, how about another query that I would like to know the answer to. Who was Julien Covay who recorded 'A little bit hurt' on Island records, which got quite a bit of NS play. I remember first hearing that as a new release on Radio Caroline. (You must realise, I was very young at the time !!!)
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roger (roger)
6-Zenith
Username: roger

Post Number: 1963
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.40.169.129
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 11:04 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keith ..

According to this link JULIAN COVEY was the drummer in BRIAN AUGER's band .. under a pseudonym ..

http://www.geocities.com/sunse tstrip/diner/2674/jcreg_bio.ht m

I do know the track, but I remember it from the reissue in the late 70's .. on Island I think .. rather than as a new release.

Funny that, as I used to listen to Radio Caroline in the '60s ( both North and South ) .. so it is quite possible I heard that back then too!!

Roger
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boba (boba)
6-Zenith
Username: boba

Post Number: 577
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 208.252.128.18
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 11:41 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Roger, I am 100% sure that the scepter record you mention IS the same group, the record also got released first on Shiptown records, the local VA label. The group is also essentially the same group as the soul duo on shiptown records, who cut a couple of records. Joe Webster also sings lead on the Wild Ones on SPQR. I will post the orbit scan when I get home. I have not had a chance to look at the links you posted but it sounds like the information there is wild speculation that has nothing to do with the reality of the records. You might want to contact Brent Hosier, the guy who put out the virginia CDs I'm talking about (try googling him, I can forward on an email address if you don't find a contact), because he can give you the full info. Thanks.

(Message edited by boba on May 27, 2008)
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roger (roger)
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Username: roger

Post Number: 1965
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.40.169.129
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 11:50 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Boba ..

Thanks for all your help ..

Presumably these are the Virginia C.Ds to which you refer ..

http://www.dcdrecords.com/deta il_rock.asp?ProductID=AICDOV2S et

Although "Incense" is not on any of them, "Since You've Been Gone" is.

Here is the soulfulkindamusic discography for Constellation .. I can see that they have "Incense" by JOE WEBSTER AND THE ANGLOS as #153.

http://www.soulfulkindamusic.n et/constellation.htm


Roger
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Keith Herschell (keith_herschell)
5-Doyen
Username: keith_herschell

Post Number: 304
Registered: 6-2004
Posted From: 86.11.93.9
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 12:35 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Roger
Thanks for the Julien Covay info. As Brian Auger group was very jazz / R&B influenced it makes sence. Only comment I have, is that if I were making an R&B record under an alias I would choose something like Otis Covay or Solomon Covay, Julien ain't exactly soulful, is it ? (Apologies to all Juliens out there)
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Mr Soul (mr_soul)
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Username: mr_soul

Post Number: 2055
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 80.6.12.57
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 2:25 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According to the notes on Kent's excellent "Sue Story Vol.3" Larry Fallon co-producer recalled "that it was cut in Newark using session musicians and singers, several of whom were in George Clinton's Parliaments".
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solar_clive (solar_clive)
5-Doyen
Username: solar_clive

Post Number: 174
Registered: 9-2004
Posted From: 86.143.98.86
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 4:07 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keith, it was Julian Covey with an E. Given the modest profile of Don Covay at the time (when I was running his UK fan club), I don't think there was much kudos to be gained by this pseudonym!

I do remember buying 'Incense' by The Anglos when it was released, and the discussion around it- almost as much debate as for "Little Joe Cook"'s 'Stormy Monday Blues'
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Mark Speck (mark_speck)
6-Zenith
Username: mark_speck

Post Number: 4350
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.61.125.111
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 8:06 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm surprised to learn that the Brit label had a UK release...I only know of the Millie Small record on the label, "My Street", which bears the 'Distributed by Atco Record Sales' legend on the label.

Best,

Mark
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boba (boba)
6-Zenith
Username: boba

Post Number: 578
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 99.140.205.93
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 10:34 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I scanned the related 45s (I also think that there is some connection to the rockmasters, but I'm not 100% sure). I'm 100% sure this is a VA group. I don't understand all the other stuff you guys are talking about or the connections you are saying but I think they are wrong. If someone wants more info, they can email me and I forward Brent Hosier's email and you can ask him for the details. The CDs linked above are the ones I was talking about. I couldn't find the "joe webster and the anglos" press on constellation but I *do* have it and i did scan the first press on orbit.






















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roger (roger)
6-Zenith
Username: roger

Post Number: 1966
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.40.169.129
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 5:18 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello All ..

Well .. I've come to the conclusion that Boba is correct and the "Incense" group and the "Since You've Been Gone" group ARE the same.

I've got out my "Solid Soul Sensations" CD and the booklet has the original L.P. notes by Ian Levine back in 1974/5 where he says that he thinks it unlikely they are the same as the "Incense" group contained members of Parliament/Funkadelic. However, I can only assume that they were the session musicians and not members of THE ANGLOS as such.

This is why I think Boba must be right and they are the same group ...

Firstly ...

On the scan of "Since You've Been Gone" posted by Boba the songwriters are shown as "Webster-Johnson" .. ( also borne out by the credits on "Solid Soul Sensations" ) .. and the issue of "Incense" on Constellation was credited to JOE WEBSTER AND THE ANGLOS. The "Sue Story Volume 3" booklet notes .. by Ady Croesdell .. mention the Constellation release as a re-issue, and Boba seems to be confirming that they ARE the same recording .. So .. It seems just too much of a coincidence that "both" groups would have a member with the same name.

Secondly ...

The booklet notes for the "Solid Soul Sensations" C.D. state that the "Since You've Been Gone" group came from Newark New Jersey .. the Orbit label that issued "Incense" was based in Newark New Jersey .. again it is too much of a coincidence to me that "both" groups had a Newark N.J. connection.

Also ...

I think Boba's excellent scans show the Virginia connection, and the fact that "Since You've Been Gone" is on one of the Virginia C.Ds backs this up.

Presumably then, they were a Virginia group who did some recordings in Newark N.J. and all the speculation that "Incense" might have been a U.K. recording with certain U.K "R&B influenced" Pop/Rock artists involved is just false rumour and misinformation by/from we Brits!!

Incidentally Boba .. the reason that in Britain a lot of people think it is a U.K. recording is that one of the producers of "Incense" .. JIMMY MILLER .. moved over here and started working with U.K. "R&B influenced" Pop/Rock acts. And the track "Incense" was a perennially popular tune throughout the second half of the '60s .. I can recall it being played by Rosko on BBC Radio One as late as 1970.

Roger

P.S. I hope no one is too "Incensed" after reading this ... LOL!!
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mike s (mike_s)
6-Zenith
Username: mike_s

Post Number: 1246
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.93.21.138
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 5:42 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Incense was always something of a mystery when it was released in the UK in the 60s. There was rumour that Spencer Davis and Stevie Winwood were involved in some way but nothing confirmed.
The single was released several times on different labels. First on Brit in 65 after it was withdrawn by Fontana, it was later issued on Fontana that same year. It was due for reissue on Sue in 67 but was again withdrawn though appearing on a Sue soul compilation LP. It was finally reissued in 69 on Island.
Strange to note that Joe was never mentioned on any UK release and that the bside each time was You're Fooling Me, not the same as on Constellation.
The record got solid radio airplay and play in clubs in the UK but never charted.
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boba (boba)
6-Zenith
Username: boba

Post Number: 579
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 99.140.205.93
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 8:41 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Roger. The scepter release originally came out on the local Virginia label shiptown (it's actually different versions of both songs, but it is the original release of the record). There is no new jersey connection at all on the scepter thing, I think. If that CD says it's a new jersey group, it's probably because the people writing it up are just assuming that the orbit group is from new jersey and that it's the same group. Thanks.
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honeysuckle (honeysuckle)
4-Laureate
Username: honeysuckle

Post Number: 85
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 79.67.220.110
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 10:11 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.winwoodfans.com/cs/ csrumor.htm

Dear All
This confirms that Stevie Winwood had nothing to do with 'Insence'.
The attached story confirms most of what is written above.

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