Soulful Detroit » Archives - Club House » McClellan Finally exposes Bush, Cheney, Rove,Libby, etc...etc. « Previous Next »

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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2709
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 71121/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_leak_ mcclellan
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4671
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 1:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If this turns out to be true I will not be surprised but the following passage made me laugh

"He (meaning Bush) acknowledged that some in the White House were involved in the leak. Then, after repeatedly declining to discuss the ongoing investigation, he said the case was closed and it was time to move on."

I suddenly thought of the line in the Mel Brooks movie History of the World Part1

"It's good to be the king"...LOL
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1087
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No surprise here either. However, I don't think there is any "if" about it.
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Skool dem (skooldem1)
6-Zenith
Username: skooldem1

Post Number: 1527
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not once was this the top story over at the Fox news website yesterday. Matter of fact, for the short time I watched the cable network they didn't even mention it. But they kept the story of Hiliary slipping in the polls up all day long.
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Skool dem (skooldem1)
6-Zenith
Username: skooldem1

Post Number: 1528
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is this grounds for impeachment?
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ladyvanaye (ladyvanaye)
6-Zenith
Username: ladyvanaye

Post Number: 5034
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ms M: - 'Ooo La La!'

LOL

Dyva
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2712
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skool....it's number 28 on a long list of grounds for impeachment that Bush has racked up with the help of so many of his ass kissing henchmen and his puppeteer vice president (operative word being VICE).



































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Destruction (destruction)
6-Zenith
Username: destruction

Post Number: 2921
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Much as I agree with a lot of the "sentiment" here.....I'm personally really getting tired of these, "Even though I was Knew Deep in It from Day ONE I can finally tell the Real truth in my NEW BOOK" by the collective "Losers Lacking Balls" troupe.

I love that last shot....mind if i use it for my comp wallpaper?
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4681
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL @ LadyD, sometimes all you can do is shake ya head and chuckle...and you know that's my fave movie...right?..LOL
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2714
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please do, Destruction....and pass it on!
I agree with you....revealing this junk after the fact....but better before he's out of the White House than after. It just gives me a little hope that finally that self indulgent, whining "COWBOY" (WHAT A JOKE) will get his weenie wacked. His mother (horror show that SHE is) never set him straight. Ironically, maybe one of his "own" will set in motion the kind of action that will lead to his ultimate political demise. To me, he is a worse criminal than Nixon EVER was.
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1088
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skool Dem wrote:

Is this grounds for impeachment?
----------

I think the response to Hurricane Katrina was grounds for impeachment.
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just7numbers (just7numbers)
6-Zenith
Username: just7numbers

Post Number: 3359
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tony Snow (job) will never write a book. He "had too much FUN!!".

And "it was such an HONOR to serve the President!"

Tony served, all right. He serviced the pres like a whore services a man's <honk!><whistle!><aaa-ouuu-gah !!>
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2715
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 6:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

(chuckle)...Exactly, J7N!
That Tony Snow handled things the way he did really didn't surprise me. Not just a Bush whore....but a FOX whore. Sounds like a British sport....all we need is a HOUND whore.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5787
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Careful guys!!!...I'm certain that Ms M will severely chastise you for calling people "out of their names" (unless of course that consideration is strictly reserved for addicted "rock stars") LOL!!!...

STUBASS
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1089
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...Gooody, I just won $10.00.......!!
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2716
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

....speaking of....



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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4684
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stick to your day job Stu, you couldn't afford green fees attempting to be a comedian:-)
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2717
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL!!!!
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5791
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually Ms M...I was being condescending (and serious) in a slightly humorous way...but it's OK. I guess it's ok to call cancer survivors like Tony Snow "out of their name"...so long as you disagree with their politics. No problem..it all makes sense to me now!!!...No harm...no foul!!!...

STUBASS
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4690
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Think whatever you will but I find nothing humorous about drug addiction Stubass.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5795
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Then I'd advise you to avoid Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, George Carlin, and Richard Pryor performances at all costs Ms.M!!!...

That said...you're still terrific in my book!!!...Happy thanksgiving!!!...

STUBASS
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4692
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haven't listened to them in years Stu but thanks and the same to you.

(Message edited by Ms._M on November 21, 2007)
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2718
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey....if you two want to continue to debate this related to Amy Winehouse...pls...be my guest. But how about over at the Amy thread where it belongs. This thread is for George and his merry men. Thanks.



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Destruction (destruction)
6-Zenith
Username: destruction

Post Number: 2925
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

' I guess it's ok to call cancer survivors like Tony Snow "out of their name"..'

And don't forget that Hitler had one Nutt...where's the compassion?
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5806
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just pointing out what appears to me to be an inconsistancy pertaining to calling people "out of their names" Des!!!...Perhaps an example of the "tolerant" being a bit "intolerant" with those who don't share their political philosophy. I think they call that...walking in "lock step" or something!!!...I also understand that in some circles...anyone of the political bent of Joe Lieberman or Harold Ford Jr within the Democratic party is considered another Mussolini!!!...Oh well...it's only primary season...When we hit the general election...Hillary, Barak, or whomever will come off as right wing, war mongering facists to some as well!!!...Thats politics!!!...

Happy Turkey...turkey (my main man Des)

STUBASS

(Message edited by STUBASS on November 22, 2007)
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Soulster (soulster)
5-Doyen
Username: soulster

Post Number: 268
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lou Dobbs for President! :-)
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1092
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stubass wrote:

"Just pointing out what appears to me to be an inconsistancy pertaining to calling people "out of their names" ........Perhaps an example of the "tolerant" being a bit "intolerant" with those who don't share their political philosophy...."
-------------------

Stubass,

You are tolerated inspite of your shortcomings - I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.



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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4734
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-)...I second that emotion marxthespot...and we all have our quirks and inconsistencies...some of us are even willing to admit it...LOL
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1093
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



....Amen, Ms. M.
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just7numbers (just7numbers)
6-Zenith
Username: just7numbers

Post Number: 3362
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Having cancer has NOTHING to do with taking a job for the wrong reasons. Snowjob had cancer LONG before he took a job that paid $175,000 a year and decided it was far too little to live on. But he sho do wish his momma could have seen her boy working for the Prez!!!!
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2721
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You have to admit....there are few that could kiss Bush's and Cheeeeeeney's ass (one ass between them) with the exquisite tongue action and just the right amount of suction as Mr. Snow. He danced beautiful by himself as Bush and Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeney were leading behind the curtain. It always amazed me that it didn't matter to him if what he said to the press corp made sense,or didn't answer the question, or if he just spoke gibberish...which is what he truly excelled at. But he learned all that from his time at False....er...I mean FOX News. I don't know how he could or can sleep at night...cancer or no cancer.
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1095
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can add Fox News' (Fox Noise's) Sean Hannity to that "tounge and suction" club, although he is not nearly so smooth as Tony Snow.

(Message edited by marxthespot on November 23, 2007)
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just7numbers (just7numbers)
6-Zenith
Username: just7numbers

Post Number: 3365
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You two are kinda turning me on!

Anyway, that should read: "FAUX NEWS".
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2727
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no, J7N....it's Tony Snow that's doing that...he and his "charm".



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jiminnm (jiminnm)
6-Zenith
Username: jiminnm

Post Number: 423
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When McClellan was Press Secy, how many of you who think that his comments are some revelation or confirmation believed anything he said? Why has the fact that he now has a book to promote made him more believable?
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JAI NANCE (rhythm66)
6-Zenith
Username: rhythm66

Post Number: 4509
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

THIS IS WHY I'LL NEVER UNDERSTAND POLITICS...OK YOU GOT THE WHOLE WHITE HOUSE AND ALL THIS STAFF RIGHT??BUT AS SOON AS THERE'S A LEAK INSTEAD OF CALLING THE PLUMBER THEY HAVE SENATE INVESTIGATION..NOW I'M NO ROCKET SCIENTIST[STOP THAT SNICKERIN STU]BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN A SENATOR YET THAT KNOWS ONE END OF A LEAKY FAUCET FROM THE NEXT,SO JUST CALL THE PLUMBER AND LET THE SENATE WHERE THEY ARE,I MEAN WHEN THEY HAVE A LEAK DO THEY CALL THE WHITE HOUSE?
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2728
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jiminnm....I never, truly trust what the press secretary knows. For me, though, that isn't the point. The point is that at least now this information is WRITTEN and that Bush and his people can possibly be challenged on what I believe have been many lies in a string of pretty awful anti-American activities. This may finally lead to the JUSTICE that they have ALL been screwing around with.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5851
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Jai...Senator Larry Craig (R-Idaho) claims that HE was only taking a leak at that airport!!!...

STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2732
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 24, 2007 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce)
6-Zenith
Username: lynn_bruce

Post Number: 687
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can remember the days of yore when I would joke with my republican friends to vote democratic or you might be kissing goodbye all your middle-class wages,nice homes, for more executive profits but very little trickle down money to the workers.. Since then I've been proven right.

When bush was awarded by HIS supreme court the presidents job the first time around I really got worried. But I still enjoyed talking to them. Then when my republican friends voted the bastard in for a SECOND term,I really thought that they were a lot stupider than I had realized. I told them that even when you KNOW he's an asshole you STILL voted him in for a second term? I don't enjoy thier company as much. I'm just a little puzzled with them on thier reasoning.

Now that we've seen all the deaths from a war that we all know was NOT necessary, no help for Americans much in bad times,trashing OUR constitution,one fiasco after another. I have to wonder about a persons sanity that can even stick up for the republican party! How much more bullshit does it take for people that LOVE the republican party to know out that this is NOT the same party that your father voted for thirty years ago.
Unless of course your even stupider than I could possibly imagine.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5860
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

C'mon Lynn...quit holding back!!!...How do you REALLY feel about those Republicans???...Now you've got me really scared!!!...I fear they'll put my 89 year old mom in the stockade after a wiretap revealed her instructing me to bake those potato's at 350 degrees for an hour and a half???...

STUBASS
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Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce)
6-Zenith
Username: lynn_bruce

Post Number: 688
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Come on Stu,tell us the truth. You can't really believe that THESE bozos are the ones that represent the true values of the republican party.
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johno (johno)
6-Zenith
Username: johno

Post Number: 1611
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How could President Bush have been awarded the presidency the first time around by HIS Supreme Court when he wasn't yet president and not a single justice of the nine were appointed by him?

Additionally, in the final 5-4 vote, Justice Souter who was appointed by Bush's father and Justice Stevens who was appointed by Ford were in the dissentive opinion so in effect voted against Bush.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2737
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lynn....your comments are MOST appreciated by me.
Bush has done so much to embarrass America in the eyes of the world. But moreover, he has worked in the most sneaky and conniving ways (and he's not that smart, so he must have had help) to slowly unravel the pillars of American democracy.
But I don't think he or his people are Republicans....I think those that have supported this ridiculous excuse for an administration are some morphed version of something that isn't remotely conservative. With the thoughtless squandering of lives and money, total disregard for the Geneva Convention and the lies and distortion about torture...that isn't conservative at all...that is psychosis.
Some may try to challenge, bit by bit, the negative attitudes that are so prevalent about Bush....but they do that and always ignore the total picture...a picture that looks more grim every day. And every day, there seems to be some new thing Bush has done to denigrate and desecrate what used to be a shining beacon to the world.





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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2738
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And THAT post BARELY left my pc....when THIS stunning news about Bush trapping us in Iraq
economically and militarily FOREVER occured........

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_ iraq;_ylt=Ai9w4avfcyFNOYDenq_pZmas 0NUE
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5862
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You bring out a good point Lynn!!!...Many "conservatives" have put forth the idea that Bush is not a true conservative (in the Reagan mold)!!!... President Reagan has become the standard for the more conservative wing of the Republican party!!!...Bush has bolted on the Reagan philosophy of holding the line on domestic spending, particularly on the costly prescription drug benefit to medicare, and some other things!!!...I feel that this philosophical divide is really more of a political matter!!!...In my opinion, Bush has done several things to try to mollify his opponents in the war on terror, and the War in Iraq to be more specific!!!...Bush (like most Presidents) has to give the opposition something, and since he has firmly based beliefs in how the war on terror needs to be waged, he throws out programs from time to time as sort of a "crumb" to the opposition!!!...Unfortunately for him...it rarely has any long term positive political effect, and those who hate him are so firmly committed to hating him, that he'd probably have been better off from a political perspective to just solidify the conservative base that brought him into power, and give the fickle finger of fate to his opponents!!!...I'm not saying that I'd personally be in favor of that...but for Bush, at least he'd avoid taking it from both sides as he is now...with the left attacking on the war and domestic security, and the right attacking on immigration and spending...HE's probably counting down the days to when he can escape the madness!!!...

STUBASS
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1103
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

George Bush may be counting the days, but not because he can't wait to escape the "madness." He's responsible for the "madness."

He seems determined to commit this country to be in Iraq for the rest of our forseeable lives, put us into a war in Iran, and dismantle the Constitution. And all of this is happening while most people are too busy dealing with the realities of supporting themselves, and a family, trying to get decent healthcare, etc. Most of the others that "aren't too busy" with those things are more obsessed with their new cars, computers, iPhones, the Super Bowl, Dancing With The Stars, or adding exclamation marks to every sentence of their posts on message boards.....

The lack of attention paid by most of society to the actions of their elected officials, especially those of the current Presidential Administration,is allowing all of this to take place - and those in the White House know this.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2740
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stubass posted"... and those who hate him are so firmly committed to hating him..."

Some are foolish enough to believe this limited view of the "hatred toward Bush", when the COMPLETE truth is that Bush is hated BECAUSE of what he has done. They always seem to forget that. Bush had a brief moment in time when he had the support of much the American people (me included). But, true to form, he screwed it up, because it is in his fractured personality structure to do just that (coddled, competitive, makes messes that he expects others to clean up, insecure and not having the thought or energy to look at what he is doing and the consequences of it).

As Murray Slaughter said to Mary Richards about Ted Baxter after Ted did a nice thing and then immediately went back to his thoughtless, selfish nature..."when a donkey flies, you can't blame him when he doesn't stay up that long."
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johno (johno)
6-Zenith
Username: johno

Post Number: 1612
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So the long-term plan is for 50,000 American troops to be deployed to American bases in Iraq away from the cities.
Do you really think that will change if the next president is a Democrat or a Republican or man or woman or black or white?
Or the president after that?
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2741
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's going to be a lot harder for any new president...whether Democrat or republican, man or woman, black or white or goddamn CAT or DOG...to undo what this idiot digs us deeper and deeper into every day. Getting us into this mess for him was a breeze. He has made such a complicated mess involving so many people, countries, financial interests...so MANY things, it's going o be impossible for this to end without major problems. but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be ended....if only to bitchslap Bush into some sense of the magnitude of his horrendous blunder....I mean BLUNDERS.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5864
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 8:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are we talking about the SAME war that Sen Hillary Clinton, Sen John Kerry, Sen John Edwards, etc, etc. etc voted to authorize based on the EXACT same intelligence provided to the President, and that former President Bill Clinton supported and called for regime change in Iraq for most of his Presidency???...(triple question marks)!!!...If any of these candidates allowed the the wool to pulled over their eyes (as they'd now like to claim to a significant 15 percent base of extreme left primary voters, and which will change in a general election), that hardly makes any them qualified to be President themselves (remember a guy named George Romney...1968)???...It's interesting that Pat Buchannon's isolationist policies have such vast support on the left!!!...

Anyways...at least one person named in the above posts understands that the FIRST responsibility of our government and our president as clearly outlined...is to Protect, Preserve, and Defend our country from ALL enemies...foreign and domestic (even internet bloggers with extreme Anti American agendas)!!!...Funny, I never noticed health insurance mentioned in our constitution either (perhaps someone could point that out)!!!...

STUBASS





(Message edited by STUBASS on November 27, 2007)
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Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce)
6-Zenith
Username: lynn_bruce

Post Number: 689
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 9:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johnro,I'm sticking with my statement about the supreme court. If there is ANY discrepancy with a presidential election ballot count especially with people complaining about not being able to vote properly(ie: florida,ohio)then it should be looked into not just saying the heck with it lets let the judges decide.

Bush may not have put them there but they sure made a decision on the matter a little to quickly to be impartial.

By the way why in the hell are you still sticking up for bush(league}?

This is not a democrat or republican issue. This is something that has to be addressed. It may be a wake up call to our country to see if we're getting a little complaisant about the Constitution and how much power a president can have with out answering to the people.

If a democrat were in office and did what bush has done to our fine military by ordering them to attack a country that didn't attack us causing the military great hardship and death fighting for people that are mostly resentful of us , I'd feel exactly the same way.
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4819
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dayum Stu...are you implying you're against Health Insurance for people who cannot afford it...but let someone kick a puppy (which I will admit is cruel) and you're deputy dog on the case..... now this calls for a

LAWD LOVE A DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! (sorry marxthespot, but I felt they were warranted:-))
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5866
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Health coverage is a nice "perk" from a "compassionate" society, Ms. M, although as I stated, I never saw it written in our constitution (which I've read several times)!!!...Incidentally...there's nothing in our constitution about health coverage for dogs either, yet that doesn't make it right to kick them!!!...

We sometimes forget that virtually EVERY county in Florida where issues arose in the 2000 election were Democrat controlled counties, which include Palm Beach, Broward, and Dade...ALL controlled by Democrats!!!...

STUBASS

(Message edited by STUBASS on November 27, 2007)
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5868
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perhaps a closer reading of the Federalist papers (the basis on which the original colonies came together to form The United States of America), which clearly indicates that those responsibilities and powers not SPECIFICALLY granted to the Unites States of America are deemed powers granted to the individual states!!!...In other words...since responsibility for health care is not specifically granted to the federal government...then our constitution implies that it is up to the individual states to provide whatever health coverage it deems appropriate based on the wishes of the population of those states!!!...It's there, if you read it!!!...Unfortunately, too many Americans have never really taken the time to learn about how their government was formed and what rights and responsibilities are granted to the states versus the federal government, and base their opinions on what may feel right for them versus what our constitution actually says!!!...

STUBASS
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1106
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There seems to be a direct correlation between the number of exclamation points a person uses in their posts and just how brown their nose is from kissing the ass of the current presidential administration and those who are complicit with them in putting us as a nation into the bind(s) we are in...
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Skool dem (skooldem1)
6-Zenith
Username: skooldem1

Post Number: 1536
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm so tired of reading that bull about the Prez reading the same info as those in the congress/senate. The president has knowledge of things that others don't. Does that administration really believe Americans are that dumb? I also tire of reading about what Bill Clinton did- that was like 15 years ago- we are 2 terms past him. When will the hatred of republicans towards Clinton, go away? Never. But that doesn't stop them from crying about how people love to hate Bush.
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4821
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

never thought of having adequate health care as a perk.....I guess dying from lack of is just one of those things.

Of course that's not your problem 'cause you have yours and everybody else has there's to get.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2743
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's laughable that someone who encourages others to do a "closer reading of the Federalist papers" doesn't read more closely himself.....

Stubass posted:"...Anyways...at least one person named in the above posts understands that the FIRST responsibility of our government and our president as clearly outlined...is to Protect, Preserve, and Defend our country from ALL enemies...foreign and domestic (even internet bloggers with extreme Anti American agendas)!!!..."

This points out how a "subtle" but PROFOUNDLY misleading post can be used to sway peoples' ideas and decisions. And this has happened in the Bush administration time and time again in NOT SO subtle ways...instilling fear, and robbing freedoms from the country under the guise of offering safety and security, when none of THAT has happened at all. We have just been meandering in an increasingly dangerous and devisive set of wars with the world and amongst ourselves because of this delusional President.
For your information....THIS is what the President's proclaim as they enter their presidential term of office. It's funny how one simple word seems to mean nothing to one who posts here...but that one word changes and clarifies the ACTUAL promise....a promise George Bush has defiled.


...."The information below is courtesy of the Architect of the Capitol. It has been compiled by the Office of the Curator from contemporary accounts and other sources in the files of the Architect of the Capitol.
Each president recites the following oath, in accordance with Article II, Section I of the U.S. Constitution:

'I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the CONSTITUTION of the United States.'"

Bush has played fast and loose with the Constitution, to the point of destroying it, as if it is his to PLAY with or destroy.
It shows how you can't really expect some people here to debate reasonably. They PLAY with the facts....just like George Bush and his administration do.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9663
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stu:

Here's a question that I have...

If there are nations whom are allegedly not as forward thinking as the greatest country of them all, then why do many of these countries embrace the concept of Universal Health Care?

We are the last acknowledged Super Power in the world, self-praised for it's morality, compassion, civility & concern for its citizens. So much concern, in fact, that it would spend trillions defending against the scourge of terrorism & all sorts of ghosts, goblins & shadows.

Certainly a nation that possesses such attributes would find that the overall health & well-being of its most cherished assets, its PEOPLE are certainly worthy of such important things as affordable health care for the poor & elderly, as well as seeing that they can sail into their "Golden Years" without having to choose whether they should pay the light bill, cut back of their food, or to keep those doctors appointments & purchase medicine that will keep them alive.

After years of being promised that all of those Social Security taxes that they paid for decades would help them through their retirements, many have discovered otherwise, as what they receive simply doesn't keep pace with inflation & an ever-increasing cost-of-living. Is it fair that many of these people have ended up losing their homes due to catastrophic illness & hospital bills? Is that what our country is really about?

We can trot out the Bill Of Rights, The Declaration Of Independence & point out the guarantees that were made over 200 years ago. However, these politicians aren't selling people the Bill Of Rights & aren't quoting it when they run for office. They say all of the right things about taking care of our citizenry, that's what they do.

Furthermore, I guarantee you that not ONE politician running for office would be so stupid as to dare insult us by waving the Bill Of Rights in our faces & use it for an excuse for not doing jack. If they did, they wouldn't be elected dog catcher, much less secretary of the 6th grade. That is a totally invalid argument because they never invoke some shit that was written in 1700 & try to apply it to life in the new millenium.

Life & society has changed a lot since those archaic artifacts were written & they've long been in need of an overhaul.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9664
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another point that you're overlooking is that all of those lovely agreements were written when America was an entirely different place & nowhere as huge as it's become. Those understanding were written under a totally different set of circumstances & conditions & truthfully, most of them need to be altered somewhat. Like the idea of electoral votes taking precedent over the popular vote.

It's like when I worked for the Post Office. They used to send us questionnaires asking all kinds of things, such as "Are you satisfied with your salary?"

Now, for those of us in the urban areas who pay exorbitant rents & where the overhead is sky high, we'd say HELL NO!!! However, some assholes who pays $1.75 for rent & get milk from their cow would respond, "Well gosh, golly & hell yes Elmer. We're doing fine here on the farm with our one stop light. We're doing just fine." And then they'd use those surveys against us & tell us what percentage were perfectly satisfied with our salaries, while the rest of us struggle to keep up with inflation.

And exactly why is is that the direction of our nation should be influenced by a bunch of people who live in the sticks, as if they are the truest reflection of American life? This shitty rule was written in the 1700's & gained popularity in the 1800s, when there was no super urban monoliths such as L.A., N.Y. & was heavily slanted toward the more sparse populations. Populations where Republicans hold sway.

And please explain to me why when we have states that feature the most economically powerful cities in the country, how the opinions of those in places such as Iowa & New Hampshire should be so damn important & wield such influence?

Many of our nation's laws have been upgraded & adjusted since those days, why not the Electoral College vote? Would you argue that the Electoral votes of smaller states that do not have the problems, expenses & concerns of larger cities should take precedent over those that suffer more economically?

We're a modern nation that seems intent on sticking to rules, amendments & laws that were meant for a less progressive world, that best represents a world that has ceased to exist years ago.

All things considered & considering that N.Y. is supposed to be the economic capital of our country, I find it somewhat incredible to realize that the state of California has 24 more Electoral votes than N.Y.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9665
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Following up on what Skooldem said...

We don't like George Bush because anyone possessed with 2 working eyes, one working brain & an ounce of discernment fully understands that in our OPINION based on his deeds, actions & policies, that this man simply doesn't give a damn about...

1. Minorities in general & BLACKS SPECIFICALLY & yes, I said it.
2. The Working Class
3. The poor

And anyone who sat through the mini-series known as "Katrina: The Shame Of A Nation" & say otherwise is either stupid as hell, tremendously & terribly deluded, have a brain lobe that's not fully functional as regards discernment or have been mesmerized by the "Bush-Cheney Jedi Mind-Trick", which states that if they tell you that what you see ain't so often enough, you'll convince yourself that they're telling you the truth.

REGARDLESS of what your own eyes see.

Then again, some folks are content to be blissfully ignorant. There are still people whom believe that there's no such thing as racism & that everyone has an equal opportunity.

Well, that's what they say anyway.

Me no believe them! No one could be THAT stupid or naive in the year 2007.

Unless it's by choice, that is!
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5869
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Which is why we allow amendments (with strict guidelines for them to be passed) to our constitution, Juice. As for "Universal Health Care"...it has been less than advertised in most cases where countries have it!!!...Despite that...those countries have instilled a mechanism to provide such a plan!!!...My only point here is (despite some folks refusing to accept the basic concepts on how the "founding fathers" set forth a roadmap as to how our country would be governed...is that unless expressly mentioned in the constitution...that responsibility for matters such as health care would be a matter for individual states to address!!!...Can you imagine a system where dollars flowing into California or New York...where it may cost 800 dollars per day to hospitalize someone due to the cost of labor, real estate to build facilities, etc...are being reimbursed on equal footing with taxes collected in Mississippi, for example, where wages and costs are much lower, bringing about a disproportunate amount of taxes from Mississippi going to national health care, versus more dollars flowing into states where costs are significantly higher!!!...Thats just ONE problem involved in national health coverage...much different than in smaller countries, where standards of living are much more equal across the board and across those countries!!!...

I won't argue the constitution or our system of federealism with folks who really have no concept of what it all means...but those are the rules we are obliged to play under...until and unless we overthrow our form of government for some different model (which has likely been tried and failed)!!!...I support people getting the health care they need, as most Americans (and even "undocumented immigrants" recieve at taxpayer expense (to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars in Los Angeles County alone last year)...but health care has always fallenunder the jurisdiction of state run medicaid programs for those without other coverage!!!...

If you want to change the constitution...have at it...but do it by lobbying congress, and having 2/3 of states to pass such amendments...not just by proposing unconstitutional methods to achieve contemporarily popular solutions!!!...
It may feel good...but it's not the way clearly spelled out in the constitution!!!...

STUBASS
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5871
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Add...I find no compunction to defend President Bush (especially since I never voted for him), and he has a much more powerful "pulpit" in which to defend himself (if he chooses to do so), but I will defend the dignity of the office!!!...

I also agree with those who chastise many on the "right" who harped on President Clinton and interfered with him doing his job!!!...Thats not to say that I approve of him turning the "oval office" into the "blowval office"...but there was much unnecessary villification which resulted, and made it difficult to do the business of the country. I also tend to blame those same haters on the right for the atmosphere of "hate" we are experiencing today in politics...although it appears to me that the far left has taken it to new heights creating a new level of unmitigated hate!!!...

STUBASS
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Ralph Terrana (ralpht)
Moderator
Username: ralpht

Post Number: 6480
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Too bad Bush squandered any dignity that is left of the office of the Presidency.

" Blowval office Stu??? HAAAAAAAAAA!
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Skool dem (skooldem1)
6-Zenith
Username: skooldem1

Post Number: 1540
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When the Democrats successfully impeach Bush then you can tell us how the democrats have "taken it to new heights creating a new level of unmitigated hate!!!... " K?
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just7numbers (just7numbers)
6-Zenith
Username: just7numbers

Post Number: 3384
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's realistically too late for a proper impeachment. Please break glass and use "Plan-B".
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5873
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like congress found out during the Clinton "impeachment" proceedings...one must have impeachable GROUNDS...not just due to some people hating the guy!!!...

STUBASS
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Skool dem (skooldem1)
6-Zenith
Username: skooldem1

Post Number: 1541
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh thats right he tried to keep a private marital problem/issue PRIVATE and got caught lying about it. One would think that torture, WMD, IRAQ, the Valerie Plame leak warrant impeachment proceedings moreso than extramarital sex.
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Ralph Terrana (ralpht)
Moderator
Username: ralpht

Post Number: 6482
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One would think Skool..
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5874
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So I suppose that President Clinton could have been impeached for blowing up what turned out to be a pill factory in Sudan killing several people, bombing Bosnia, bombing Iraq, etc etc etc could also have been impeached...sans even Monica & the other ladies???...Those weren't grounds and neither are any of the things mentioned in the above posts. Disagreeing with policy is not ground for impeachment...no matter how loud one screams or how shrill those screams are!!!...

And the last Time I checked, the law read that it's illegal to lie to Congress PERIOD....not it's illegal to lie (unless you're getting a piece of ass out of it)!!!...

BTW...Ms Plame "outed" HERSELF, when she did a magazine article (including cover picture) with her husband!!!...Nobody in Washington was unaware that Ms Plame was a CIA employee!!!...

STUBASS

(Message edited by STUBASS on November 27, 2007)
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2744
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"BTW...Ms Plame "outed" HERSELF, when she did a magazine article (including cover picture) with her husband!!!...Nobody in Washington was unaware that Ms Plame was a CIA employee!!!..."

Well...that's what Bush, Cheney, et al said....of COURSE it's true. Glad you use "credible" sources.I guess THAT won't change.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5875
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Err...I actually SAW the article (and the James Bond/Pussy Galore type photograph on the cover)...and I tend to believe my own "lyin eyes"!!!...One would think that CIA operatives should NOT be posing for such pictures (intended for widespread distribution) and participating in such interviews...but hey... that's just me!!!...

STUBASS

(Message edited by STUBASS on November 27, 2007)
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tresjolie (tresjolie)
6-Zenith
Username: tresjolie

Post Number: 3871
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skool Dem- Nancy Pelosi (Speaker of the House) when she got in office - one of the first things she said that they were NOT going to impeach the president. This was after DEMS took a stronghold of Congress and the nation was well into the War. Why wouldn't they? Maybe they are down with George Bush...Maybe they have no spine. Why are they so afraid to impeach Bush but no one was afraid to get all up in Clinton?

As James Mtume says - Right Wing Left Wing, it's still the same bird. Are there even two separate parties anymore? One hand washes the other. They all need each other. JMHO.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5876
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quite true Tres!!!...As a matter of fact...Congress rates even lower than The President in any credible poll!!!...Hmmmm...when one assumes power, then discovers that it comes with RESPONSIBILITY...perceptions often change!!!...

STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2745
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Apart from that last bit of rehashed tripe from an old Tucker Carlson show....

Sadly, the Democrats in Congress, and the majority is BARELY that, are not in that great position of power that some fools like to claim. They don't have the majority enough to do the things they would like. That they have no backbone is very true and very sad. They have had numerous opportunities to make a few changes, or at least take a stand, and they didn't. I was certainly disappointed that there was no attempt to impeach Bush, his being so worthy of that, and continues to rack up reasons. After what the Republican did with Clinton, Bush has been far more worthy. But if you measure that against the
political manipulation, lies and thievery brought on by the Bush administration, there is no comparison. It's the difference between venial and mortal sins. NEITHER are good, but one is REAL bad!!! REAL bad.
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Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce)
6-Zenith
Username: lynn_bruce

Post Number: 690
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When you walk into your neighborhood bar/pub,you know how at one end of the bar it curves and there's about three seats that the regulars usually sit at? I wish we all could be sitting around the curve there now bullshitting about this subject.

The way I see it we all want (mostly) the same thing we're just arguing the way to it. George perroit(sp) said it right about that giant sucking sound. The lack of good paying jobs for people with just a highschool ed. (basically our middle class)in Detroit here has pretty much gone bye-bye. Yes I know EVERYONE should at least have a collage degree but the fact is that we have way to many people that because of economic reasons had to get a job. Once they got on the assembly line here in Detroit, the money was to good to leave(there are a lot of degrees still working on the line because the field they were trained in is gone or has moved mostly to low paying countries).

The thing we all want is for our government to spend our tax dollars on Americas defense not other countries (at least for a while)( we've over extended our help to other countries at the expense of our own). We want the government to do something to get more jobs back to America. We want to have the freedom to drive down a street with out worrying about your safety.

I don't know, to tell you the truth It seems that we're screwed. What the hell ARE we going to do to get people with a highschool ed. into jobs that pay enough that they can pay for hospitalization and still have enough to spend money for a few luxuries like food, home ownership,ect.. And them there's the the problem of illegal immigration working for less wages that compounds the problem.

Man, we could be in this bar for hours solving Americas problems.
Ma'm could we have another round please and put it on my tab. You guys want some chips? Bring us five pickled eggs, three bags of chips and four smokies. I'll have another pitcher of Sierra Navada Pale Ale in that round also.
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Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce)
6-Zenith
Username: lynn_bruce

Post Number: 691
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When you walk into your neighborhood bar/pub,you know how at one end of the bar it curves and there's about three seats that the regulars usually sit at? I wish we all could be sitting around the curve there now bullshitting about this subject.

The way I see it we all want (mostly) the same thing we're just arguing the way to it. George perroit(sp) said it right about that giant sucking sound. The lack of good paying jobs for people with just a highschool ed. (basically our middle class)in Detroit here has pretty much gone bye-bye. Yes I know EVERYONE should at least have a collage degree but the fact is that we have way to many people that because of economic reasons had to get a job. Once they got on the assembly line here in Detroit, the money was to good to leave(there are a lot of degrees still working on the line because the field they were trained in is gone or has moved mostly to low paying countries).

The thing we all want is for our government to spend our tax dollars on Americas defense not other countries (at least for a while)( we've over extended our help to other countries at the expense of our own). We want the government to do something to get more jobs back to America. We want to have the freedom to drive down a street with out worrying about your safety.

I don't know, to tell you the truth It seems that we're screwed. What the hell ARE we going to do to get people with a highschool ed. into jobs that pay enough that they can pay for hospitalization and still have enough to spend money for a few luxuries like food, home ownership,ect.. And them there's the the problem of illegal immigration working for less wages that compounds the problem.

Man, we could be in this bar for hours solving Americas problems.
Ma'm could we have another round please and put it on my tab. You guys want some chips? Bring us five pickled eggs, three bags of chips and four smokies. I'll have another pitcher of Sierra Navada Pale Ale in that round also.
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Ralph Terrana (ralpht)
Moderator
Username: ralpht

Post Number: 6483
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can we smoke in this bar Lynn?
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Skool dem (skooldem1)
6-Zenith
Username: skooldem1

Post Number: 1543
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Republicans are better at playing games. They set the game up to where you cant say anything about the administration, or president, or be against the war. If you do you are ridiculed. Where are the fighters? Where are the people that will stand up and speak the truth about the games being played? Even if someone speaks up they are called unpatriotic, or a conspiracy theorist. Someone needs to keep it real. There is one republican and also one democrat that I enjoy listening to, because they say things others are afraid to.
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Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce)
6-Zenith
Username: lynn_bruce

Post Number: 692
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ralph, only if I can choose what we smoke or if you've got some really good shit. Ahhh,musicians,what can you do,the bunch of degenerates.
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tresjolie (tresjolie)
6-Zenith
Username: tresjolie

Post Number: 3872
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skool Dem- I can agree that maybe Republicans are better "chess players" but with this past election, i think the general public made it pretty clear that they did not want REPS (aside from Bush) running the government. DEMS took majority control of the Senate and House. The public was hoping that they would hold Bush accountable for alot of things and then..."we will not impeach Bush..."(paraphrasing). There was nothing that divided this country more than the issue of the war. Even if DEMS felt that they MAY not be successful in impeachment, STILL put it on the table and see where the chips will lie. Even after the DEMS came in, it's been the same old same old and it makes you wonder: either BUSH got them all in check or they have no spine to stand up and represent for the people who voted them in there.

Hi Midnite-All DEMS and REPS need each other because when one person needs a certain bill passed, they call on favors: "hey, if you vote on mine, i'll vote on your bill, etc.". That is normal. But like Skool said- there has to be someone to take a stand on the big issues. When Nancy Pelosi came out with that from jump, it is like "well why not impeach?" DEMS and some REPS would have supported her since people were screaming to bring the troops home. Makes people wonder why she was so firm on that and not even give a good reason. Like you said, if Bush committed worse atrocities than Clinton, what are they waiting for?
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
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Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2746
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tres....totally agree with you.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5877
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm in Lynn!!!...We can even rewrite the constitution...promising universal health coverage...a chicken in every pot...pot for every chicken...and the abolition income taxes!!!...Now sign that document and pass it on down...NOT THE DOCUMENT SILLY!!!...

STUBASS
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5878
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tres...it's true that once the primary season is over (and the candidates try to out radical each other and secure their nomination)...the right moves towards the middle and the left moves towards the middle!!!...Thats the only formula that seems to work in winning a general election!!!...

STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2748
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 7:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What a breathetaking grasp of the obvious. I love self appointed teachers....but not that much. They teach, not because anyone is asking to learn, but to hear their own little voice ringing in their own little head.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5879
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By the way Lynn...if you feel that our military should only intervene when our shores are breached...consider the fact that Germany did NOT attack us prior to our entry in WW2. There are other reasons, particularly in todays volatile times!!!...Consider our own national security in so much as we can attack terrorism overseas, as opposed to waiting until it hits our shores...preventing the disbursement of chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons to terrorist organizations and rogue states...protecting our alliances, preventing a disruption of our energy sources (our lifeblood), and most importantly, introducing Democracy to regimes steeped in cruel dictatorships and preventing the spread of fundamentalist Islam!!!...That is the price you pay for being the greatest power in the history of mankind and the order which must be diligently maintained to prevent worldwide anarchy!!!...The alternative is to return to an agrarian society and sit around eating coconuts until someone else decides they want our coconuts!!!...

STUBASS
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Skool dem (skooldem1)
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Username: skooldem1

Post Number: 1545
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh lawd. Stu-are you playing devils advocate or do you honestly believe all of that?
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5880
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Both Skool d!!!...Wars have been fought for a lot less...Just consider the 10 year war between Iran and Iraq...and what was THAT all about???...You spell it with a Q...NO, you spell it with an N...No, you spell it with a Q...NO you spell it with an N...etc etc etc!!!...

Seriously..."War Is Not The Answer" makes a great bumper sticker...but unfortunately... sometimes war is the ONLY answer!!!...

STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2749
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Skool dem...I know....seems like an unauthentic bunch of crap just to incite.
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1107
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think his standard M.O. is to incite and fluster. It is especially obvious when those exclamation points are used ever so promiscuously....

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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2752
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh....I think promiscuously is MUCH too delicate a word for how those exclamation points are used....I think...oh....I shouldn't. I'll wait until I'm incited.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2754
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey...I can see why some posters use these exclamation points so much. WHAT a RUSH!!!!!!!
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5881
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Lynn (and all)!!!...This was sent along to me by a friend and Soulful Detroit forum member who shall remain nameless...but I think it's well worth the time it takes to read it!!!...

Subject: Denzel Washington and Brooks Army Medical Center!!!...

Don't know if you heard about this, but Denzel Washington and his family visited the troops at Brook Army Medical Center, San Antonio, Texas (BAMC) the other day. This is where soldiers who have been evacuated from Germany come to be hospitalized in the United States, especially burn victims. There are some buildings called Fisher Houses. The Fisher House is a hotel where soldier's families can stay, for little or no charge, while their soldier is staying in the hospital. BAMC has quite of few of these houses on base, but as you can imagine, the are almost filled most of the time.

While Denzel was visiting, BAMC gave him a tour of one of the Fisher Houses. He asked how much one of them would cost to build. He took his checkbook out and wrote a check for the FULL AMOUNT right there on the spot. The soldiers were amazed to hear this story and want to get the word out to the American public, because it warmed their hearts to hear it.

The question I have is, why does:

Alec Baldwin

Madonna

Sean Penn

and so many other "Hollywood types" make front page news with their anti-everything America trash, and Denzel Washington's patriotism doesn't even make page 3 in the Metro Section of any newspaper, except the local paper in San Antonio???...

Good question if you ask me!!!...

forwarded by STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
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Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2755
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1108
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not only do we get exclamatory promiscuity, but now a celebrity-drvien diversion that means absolutely nothing..
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2756
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds more like EXCRETORY promiscuity to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
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johno (johno)
6-Zenith
Username: johno

Post Number: 1613
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That Denzel Washington story is a hoax and has been making the email rounds for years.

It's an urban legend.

Washington did visit the Brooke Army Medical Center on December 17, 2004 and said he would make a commitment ot Fisher House and several months after his visit he made a sizeable donation
and although substantial it was far from the amount of the cost to build a new Fisher House.

He most certainly did not take out a checkbook and write a check for the full amount on the spot as the bogus email claims.

Washington is indeed a philanthropist with issues and causes close to his heart and should be commended but not through a false story.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2757
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And here is Mr Potato head Karl Rove seriously attempting to change the history of the Iraq War on Charlie Rose's show. What a DICK head....sorry...potato head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =gTqACtWRJT0
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5882
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While the size of Denzels substantial donation my be in question...certainly the size of his heart is not!!!...

http://www.freerepublic.com/fo cus/f-news/1419772/posts

Thanks Mr Denzell Washington!!!...

STUBASS
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1110
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

George Bush's & Dick Cheney's Impeachable Offenses:

* Lying to Congress and the American people about the reasons for going to War in Iraq, with doctored intelligence. (already proven)

* Breaking the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures.....no Warrants shall issue but upon probable cause..." (The FISA wiretaps, internet spying, and other violations.)

* Habeas Corpus abolished on demand - The writ of habeas corpus has historically been an important instrument for the safeguarding of individual freedom against arbitrary state action. (The FISA Act allows the government to disregard this at will -- Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf did the exact same thing when he imposed Marshall Law in Pakistan).

* Treason in the form of allowing the identity of a covert CIA agent (Valerie Plame) to be leaked to the media. Didn’t he say that whoever was responsible would be disciplined? Instead, he “rescued” Scooter Libby from serving any prison time. Plame’s identity was disclosed by Richard Armitage at the direction of Dick Cheney and Carl Rove.

* The grossly inadequate Federal response (FEMA) to Hurricane Katrina was not just a national and political disgrace, but a humanitarian one.

* The disgraceful treatment of our war veterans at Walter Reed Hospital, plus the grossly inadequate health care for all veterans of wars.

And now there is this "smooth manipulation" by this Administration to get us into an unnecessary war with Iran.

After 9/11, they (Bush/Cheney/Rove) told us that the intent of Al Queda and other terrorists was to not only kill innocent people, but destroy our Democracy by hurting our economy, drive up the price of crude oil (about $30/barrel in 2001 – now $96/barrel), and generate enough fear to have us question our basic values and way of life (Democracy)……This Administration was supposed to protect us from these threats. Instead, Bush & Cheney’s “leadership” in the six years since has only served to advance the agenda of these terrorists.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5884
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 12:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Geez...I wonder if Nancy Pelosi knows about all those (unsubstantiated) charges???...

STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2760
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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johno (johno)
6-Zenith
Username: johno

Post Number: 1615
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How come Don Rumsfeld's name hasn't surfaced in this bash Bush fest yet?
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2761
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 12:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Man...I thought he died. We aim to please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1115
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 12:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Geez, Congress, and both the Democratic and Republican presidential candidates are scrambling to figure out how to undo the damage around the substantiated facts posted above.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2762
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 1:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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marxthespot (marxthespot)
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Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1116
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 1:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce)
6-Zenith
Username: lynn_bruce

Post Number: 694
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 8:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stu, theres a hell of a difference between going over and helping Europe fight an invading Nazi force and invading Iraq.

It's starting to get tiresome explaining to neo-coms like yourself that the best way I can support the military is to get them back home with thier families. George Bush doesn't want them to come home but I do. This isn't a war this is an occupation. Remember we never went through the channels for it to be a war so golly gee it must NOT be a war. This is what happens when the white house does not listen to the advice of real military fighting men and takes the advice of white house lackies like Rumsfeld.
We should kick ass when we see the enemy not attack every shadow that happens to be an Arab muslim that likes to live with thier own values not our values. If they come here so be it we kill them,wipe them off the face of the earth.
Since Alquida has no country why don't we just invade the whole fucking world. We know they are in Pacistan yet we don't want to offend them. This is why we bring our troops home. They aren't allowed to finish the job because they MIGHT offend some countries over there. This is bullshit. George Bush and his cronies have already proven that they have no business fighting wars. They have way to much ego and don't want to take the advice of Military people that really know a thing or two about fighting. (unless it's to thier advantage politically)
. Watch how fast we'd pull together as one America if they EVER tried to really invade America. What a bunch of crap!
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5885
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some people wait to fight cancer after it's too late, Lynn, while other do what they can to prevent getting it in the first place!!!...

Remember a place called Korea...where more American soldiers died in one continuous 7 day battle and retreat at a place called Tejon than we've lost in the entire Iraqi conflict at this point???...Harry S Truman (much like President Bush) was widely villified over that war, and his popularity so low that he decided not to run for reelection in 1952. Lets fast forward 50 years, where today, South Korea (which exists because of our military efforts) is the 11th or 12 largest economy in the world and serves as a buffer for our interests in the far east and is a major trading partner of the United States. Can you imagine a Korean peninsula with the equivalent of a North Korea running the whole show...keeping millions of people (literally) in the dark???...Our world would be much different today, and Harry Truman is today widely seen as a great President.

Lets not forget that many prominent people wanted isolation and non intervention in World War 2. Can you imagine what the world would be like had we NOT given of our youth and engaged another dictator...Adolph Hitler???...And speak about so called constitutional rights...FDR not only used whatever methods he had available, including covert wiretapping, etc to find our enemies within...but threatened to shut down major newspapers who were publishing what he believed to be opinions and articles which worked against our interests in the war effort and jail their publishers in some cases!!!...Can you imagine President Bush doing that today??...Just the fact that some can talk all the crap they do on a transparent website like this goes to show that President Bush is not the all powerful thief of our constitutional rights that some would claim!!!...If the President genuinely believes that I'm a threat to Americas security, and wants to listen to my phone calls, where he'll more than likely just catch me trying to get laid tomorrow night, then have at it!!!...Some folks apparently got caught whacking off in the bathroom by their moms too many times...prompting this intense sense of paranoia they will likely carry with them throughout the rest of their lives!!!...

As for Iraq...if nothing else...just the fact that Saddam Hussein has been disposed of has made the governments of Jordan, Eqypt, Saudi Arabia,Lebanon, Iran, Israel, The UAE, and many more...very happy, as one can see by most of those countries agreeing to participate in The Presidents current effort to bring a peaceful settlement in the Israeli-Palistinian conflict!!!...General Petraeus has done an outstanding job in recent months...we are making long term plans for the security of Iraq, similar to what we've done in Korea, Japan, Germany, etc...and while some political partisans wish for our failure in Iraq...I certainly hope that we continue to see successes and that the Iraqi people decide that peace and conciliation is the brightest pathway to the future. If so...all of our efforts will have been well worthwhile...and it may take 15-30 years to determine that, as well as President Bush's ultimate legacy, which he has firmly placed his eggs in the Iraqi basket!!!...

That said...all this impeachment talk is bullshit and just as bogus as what they tried to do to President Clinton (who killed Vince Foster of course LOL) and ain't gonna happen, so some folks just need to get over it...or put up!!!...

Has President Bush made mistakes and pulled some bonehead moves???...Of course...as has virtually every person who ever occupied The White House. I have yet to see a President who has not had the accompanying "Impeach *****" bumper stickers appearing on the cars of their political opponents...going all the way back to President Kennedy...yet did we actually impeach Kennedy due to the fact that he sent hundreds of Cuban exiles and American citizens to their deaths and imprisonments at a place called The Bay Of Pigs, when he withdrew American military support at the last minute after the invasion had been launched???...No impeachment there...just a bad mistake!!!...Did we try to impeach LBJ over the Vietnam War...and talk about evesdropping...LBJ and J Edgar Hoover took it to new heights, but did we impeach???...Hell no!!!...Nixon...he should have been and would have been impeached...and rightfully so!!!...Ford pardoned Nixon!!!...Impeachable offense???...No way!!!...Carter didn't do shit...so there was nothing top impeach him for, despite opening the door for the radical Islam which is threatening the world today. Reagan sent hundreds of marines to their deaths in Lebanon and sent arms to the Contras!!!...Impeach???...You' d be hung out to dry for even trying!!!...The first President Bush, President Clinton...impeach???...They tried it with Clinton over a matter which should have been resolved with a firm censure, and ended up getting their asses handed to them...rightfully so!!!...Impeach THIS!!!...Vote for the candidate of your choice next year!!!...Whomever wins the election will be sure to have the haters trying to impeach them virtually from day 1...regardless of the party that wins the White House!!!...Just the way our society has become!!!...Meantime...I'm going to the mall...NOT worried about some terrorist attack occurring when I arrive there!!!...Thanks George!!!...

STUBASS
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9673
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stu:

Obviously the big difference is that Germany was on their way to ruling the entire world. Al Qaeda's reach & financial resources doesn't quite measure up to where Hitler was back then.

Another tremendous difference is that back then, Americans were still on that "How much is that doggy in the window" innocent stage & believed that things were going to improve for their families. At that point, they were quite right.

But if we're gonna talk war & patriotism, let's also consider what's happened since then...

How about the shabby way that the vets of W.W. II are being treated in recent years? What about the fact that as the years rolled on, many programs for the veterans have been gutted & constantly eroded? Is that any way for those brave soldiers who put their bodies on the line to have been treated as they grew older?

How about the shitty way that the Vietnam veterans were treated while fighting a war...OOPS!!! I meant "POLICE ACTION" that was equally as unpopular then, as Iraq is now? How about the soldiers who came back to the U.S. in droves with mental problems & nightmares over the memory of having to shoot little kids & women who were going to kill them? Did the government ever deal with any of their torment in a meaningful way? How about the droves who came back addicted to heroin & missing body parts, only to be treated like pieces of shit & largely forgotten about by the government that they served?

How about the totally heartless & shitty way that the government has treated the soldiers who fought in Desert Storm? How about the fact that the government has consistently denied that the illnesses & birth defects of newborn children of soldiers, whom while living thousands of miles away from one another, was in no way connected to the chemicals that were sprayed on them while fighting for the country? What about shitty treatment & denials like that coming from our government? Is that any way for the government to have treated those soldiers?

And they play with even OUR lives, under the guise of knowing what's "best for us". They treat us like shit, would kill any of us or try to destroy us if it threatened their way of life.

They take care of their rich buddies because the fact of the matter is that politicians aren't running a damn thing, Big Business is & that's why nothing will ever change on that front. Big Business controls your economy, your media concerns & the messages that we receive, subliminal or otherwise. And make no mistake about that, they spend billions of dollars performing studies that teach them how to influence things as simple as our purchases. How much more so our thought processes on more important matters?

Then as businesses file for bankruptcy, they receive their "Golden Parachutes", receive pardons & we peons get set up for the next scam.

Though I understand what you're saying as regards getting in the first punch (after all, the best defense is a good offense), the truth is as you (nor I) have ever had to witness those atrocities first hand, it might be easy to be so cavalier as to dismiss them as "justifiable" & the cost of doing business. But when all is said & done, I simply wonder one thing...

Who in the fuck gave our country the right to play God & what makes some believe that given our own skeletons that we are worthy of doing so?

Tell me this...how many people have been murdered while our citizens did "God's Will"? How much innocent blood has been shed by the most enlightened country, all while invoking the name of "God"?

"In God We Trust" indeed. Seems to me that the only familiarity that they have with "God" can be found on a dollar bill.

Even Pagans had "Gods". Considering the history of our country, why should any of us have faith that they're doing the will of the RIGHT GOD?

(Message edited by juicefree20 on November 28, 2007)
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just7numbers (just7numbers)
6-Zenith
Username: just7numbers

Post Number: 3397
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL, Marx! ".....going well...." vs. "....going badly.....".
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2764
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marx....yeah....great cartoon! But you know what's even funnier? 3rd post back...
That's a REAL political JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5886
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice...I wouldn't take issue with any of your well addressed points regarding the care given to our veterans. Thats quite frankly not the issue though when it comes to America doing what it has to do to protect ourselves and our allies from terrorism...which if left unchecked would potentially equal and surpass the level of terror induced by Hitler (who relied on much less sophisticated weapons. Hitler never ran four airliners into skyscrapers and The Pentagon right here on our soil!!!... Remember...these are religious fanatics...not political extremists or racial superiority advocates!!!...They have the people and potential access to the most dangerous weaponry known to man!!!...

As for "big business" running things!!!...It's true that in a capitalist society that business will have a somewhat disproportionate impact on the economy, since they also produce the vast majority of the wealth!!!...In other words...a poor person never gave me a job!!!...That said, certainly safeguards must be in place to secure the legitimate rights of all citizens, and opportunities available to all those willing to work hard and sacrifice to achieve more in life...and on that, we can readily agree!!!...

STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2765
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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Ralph Terrana (ralpht)
Moderator
Username: ralpht

Post Number: 6491
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She's a piece of work John.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2766
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She sure is, Ralph!
And WHAT an ADAM'S APPLE!!!! The envy of all the guys!
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9675
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stu:

What I'm saying is very much related to protecting the nation & very relevant.

I don't know how you feel about it, but it's my belief that it's ones duty to take care of those who take care of you. As those soldiers fought to preserve our way of life & followed the dictates of their government, their government owes them more than bullshit sloganeering or having a blind eye & a deaf ear as regards their troubles.

The fact that they followed the call of their government makes their collective plight very relevant in any discourse about this topic. I didn't go through what they did & you didn't go through what they did. Nevertheless, I see their struggles as being extremely relevant here. What good is it to serve your country, only to have that same country fail to serve you in YOUR time of need?

While sacrificing so much for keeping our "free" world free, who saves the saviors from those in charge?

Or is being shit on their just reward for serving their country & doing the bidding of the power brokers so that THEY may enjoy the lifestyle & privileges of which THEY'VE become accustomed to?

Their treatment of those who have fought so bravely & have sacrificed so much is very relevant here.

Besides, isn't it true that most of those whom are so quick to send our young men & woman off to war, never served one minute in a war zone or so much as K.P. duty?

Why is it that when it comes to preserving our way of life that only your children & mine are used as cannon fodder while their kids go off to Yale & Harvard? Why are they any better than your child or mine? Do you not see an inequality here?

When do they & theirs do their part to save the world for Democracy & freedom?
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stubass (stubass)
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Username: stubass

Post Number: 5888
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I totally agree with you Juice...but honestly, I've spoken with many soldiers who have praised the benefits they receive as well as the increased pay scale they are now receiving. Just last week, I spoke with a gentleman who at age 39 decided to re enlist, after 7 years of civilian life, telling me about all the new benefits that he and his family are now entitled to!!!...Hopefully, many of the problems you have alluded to are being corrected, as you're absolutely correct...these men and women deserve the best care possible!!!...

STUBASS
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
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Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9676
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two other things that I find quite curious...

We bombed the hell out of Japan. Less than 40 years later, we were importing their cars & electronics. So much so, that our own American companies were devastated & Americans speak of the "superiority" of their products. We also allowed them to come into our country & out of greed, allowed them to buy property on OUR SOIL, often for double or triple the existing market value.

Not once did one of those greedy asses ask why anyone would be willing to do such a thing by virtually bidding against themselves. Not once did one of these idiots stop to think that by selling AMERICAN concerns to a country that we humiliated less than 40 years prior, the property values & rents would skyrocket for the rest of us.

In 1979, we had the Iran Hostage affair & we supported Iraq. And 22 years later, who did we engage in "war" after lending all of that support & having kept the world safe for Democracy & freedom?

The same damn people whom we supported in 1979.

Exactly what, if anything does that tell us & what have we learned?

If anything at all?

What I've learned is that perhaps we'd all be better served if they chose to take care of home & to spend more time, money & resources strengthening our OWN internal weak links. It's laughable to think of how crazed they are to save Iraq from Iraq, when we can't even shore up a dam, can't figure out a way to better our educational system, teach Johnny to read & get our kids as technically proficient as the kids of other nations. Or for that matter to figure out a way to keep so many illegal guns from finding their way into the hands of murderers.

Then there's the needed war on poverty, health care for all, creating American jobs that will help Americans to provide food & shelter for their families, as opposed to the $7 per hour that these folks feel is more than an acceptable wage for Americans.

Oops...there I go again...The Declaration Of Independence of Bill Of Rights didn't factor such meaningless things in.

Though true that these documents promised none of this, those documents also didn't give them the right to get rich at our expense or to rule this country & create policies & take actions detrimental to the greater good. Where in The Bill Of Rights, Emancipation Proclamation, Declaration Of Independence or even The Gettysburg Address did it state that they would have the inherent right to run us into the ground while only a chosen few benefitted? Weren't we all allegedly supposed to receive an equal opportunity to succeed?

But that doesn't stop them from doing it, now does it?

Watch & see...give them 10 years & we'll be exporting tele-marketing jobs to Iraq & probably be buying their Grade A sand for our beaches.

Just like all of those lovely cars & radios from Japan & those lovely toys & gadgets that are Made In Korea.

The saying goes: "He who forgets his past is doomed to repeat it." How is it possible that leaders so enamored with spouting catch-phrases, sound drops & cliches, could fail to grasp the wisdom that lies within those very cliches that they love so?
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just7numbers (just7numbers)
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Username: just7numbers

Post Number: 3398
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 5:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OH! It's Ann Coulter. For a minute all I saw was

Joan Van Ark!
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stubass (stubass)
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Username: stubass

Post Number: 5889
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whew Juice!!!...You've said a mouthful!!!...

I personally have no problem with international trade!!!...Take automobiles for example!!!...There's really no such thing as a completely "made in America" car anymore, since most components come from all over the world!!!...Japanese technology and competition has forced the American automakers to build a better product, versus the planned obsolencense that the domestic automakers used to give us in a take it or leave it scenario!!!...With domestic unemployment at near record lows, I have no problem with international cooperation!!!...Japan is a strong ally in that part of the world...and thats what can happen when we abide by our principals and are willing to fight and sacrifice for what we believe in!!!...

As far as us supporting Iraq when they went to war with Iran...thats just the way it was at that time, and geo-politics are a complex matter...where enemies must be ranked as to just how dangerous they are to our security at any given time and place!!!...Remember...my enemy's enemy is my friend!!1...Geo-political "blowback" is just a fact of life!!!...Look at Vietnam!!!...Bitter enemies, yet today, we are enjoying trade and cultural exchanges with them...and I find that to be a good thing!!!...Taking care of domestic problems and having vast international relations and trade are not mutually exclusive concepts...and for the record...I'm not in favor of isolationism!!!...We live in a global society...like it or not...and with all the news modes of communication and transportation...the world has become a very small place!!!...Look at the fabric of our own society!!!...We have (legal) immigration from all around the world, and it does enrich the American experience, and bring new talent to help us solve many of our long withstanding problems with fresh perspectives!!!...

Anyways, it's a pleasure to discuss these issues within the context of various opinions given in good faith...and speaking for myself...I always learn something from serious minded, mature, and considerate people such as yourself and others!!!...

STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
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Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2767
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...and now....a group hug......bleccccccccccchhhh
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
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Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9677
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stu:

I also fully understand that even if I were running things that things would likely be different than they are at present. What it comes down to is that it seems as though man has almost run out of use for mankind.

For one thing, much of mankind has too much self-interest. The problems that we face often stem from greed, not to mention the old "crabs in a barrel" mentality.

I don't believe that God ever meant for man to live as he does & the constant increase in technological advances & an increasing population that has found man encroaching on the habitats of animals, has had a negative impact on the natural order of things & has totally screwed up Mother Nature.

I guess that what it all comes down to is that when it comes to running this planet & keeping order, man is in way over his head.

It seems as though we're expecting mere men to have the wisdom to manage this planet as God would.

In that case it's inevitable that we will fail. This is bigger than all of us & way too complex to be worked out by mere mortals, all of whom have selfish interests in mind.
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stubass (stubass)
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Username: stubass

Post Number: 5890
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

New York to Paris in about 7 hours Juice...and to think...it took Lindberg over 33 hours!!!...

I'm not sure what God has in mind...but I guess I'm one of those "go with the flow" kind of cats, and do my best to take care of me and mine!!!...

The technological advancements over the course of the past century are somewhat mind-boggling though...and technology in the wrong hands can be quite troublesome!!!...

Hopefully...man can continue to absorb what God has given us!!!...

STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
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Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2768
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Read about this late breaking RUDY NEWS....and his ties to TERROR!!!

http://www.villagevoice.com/ne ws/0748,barrett,78478,6.html
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johno (johno)
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Username: johno

Post Number: 1617
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Any thoughts on Bill Clinton's Director of Intelligence Programs from 1993-1995 who was then appointed CIA Director in 1997 and who instead of being replaced as is the tradition when a new administration takes over was instead retained as CIA Director by George Bush until 2004.
Tenet is also the author of the 9/15/01 Worldwide Attack Matrix document?

Or how about Richard Perle who was appointed by George Bush in July of 2001 as the Chairman of the Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee?

If you don't like Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld then you can't be too crazy about these policy architects either.
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jiminnm (jiminnm)
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Username: jiminnm

Post Number: 424
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Remember we never went through the channels for it to be a war so golly gee it must NOT be a war."

I've been meaning to stay out of this because Stu has been doing just fine, but you're wrong on this one Lynn. If you the read the various resolutions passed by Congress prior to us going into Iraq, you'll see that Congress clearly gave the Prez the power to go into Iraq. In fact, the resolutions give the Prez the power to go elsewhere in the pursuit of terrorists (loosely and broadly defined). That's why there's been so much argument about who's been defined as terrorists. The Congress had the same intel as the administration had about the situation in Iraq, and the allegation about the intel being made up and false is, well, made up and false. If Congress wants us out of Iraq, all they have to do is rescind their authorization.

By the way, the current front running Democrat candidate for Prez voted for these resolutions, despite her recent efforts to dance all around the issue.
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stubass (stubass)
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Username: stubass

Post Number: 5891
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quite true jiminnm...and add to that the fact that we were and are STILL in Iraq under a United Nations mandate originating from the first Gulf War, which led to Saddam Hussein violating the United Nations resolutions at least 14 times...giving us full rights under United Nations authority to go in and finish the job (which I believe we are doing)...a fact that many people seem to overlook!!!...

STUBASS
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
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Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1118
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They say that bad news comes in three's........apparently it's true.
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
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Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1120
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone who believes that Congress had the same exact intel as the president and his administration had about the situation in Iraq......
well......help is available.....



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Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce)
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Username: lynn_bruce

Post Number: 698
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 7:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I stand corrected and I've decided to join the republican party so I can party with all you neo-cons. Now that I'm on Bushes side lets go!
First lets bomb Iran and get rid on those pesky atomic reactors cause better to hit them before they invade us or send a bomb our way. Then onward and upward to Syria. Let's get those bastards cause they're all muslim extremists just waiting to wipe us off the earth. Hey,I forgot about that clown with the weird hair in North Korea,he hates America lets send troops in so we can take him out.
Your either with us or against us!
If you don't support the war,you don't support the troops!
Remember 9-11!
The Roman army thought they could spread thier way of life and thoughts over the world and almost did it. But in the long run when you spread your fighting forces to thinly around the world,something bad is bound to occur to them.

Have any of you listened to real military people,not talking heads? Our armed forces are at the breaking point. We have no draft to replentish them. We're down to putting 50 year old men and women national guard reservists in combat situations and THEN telling them they have to stay for another tour.. We're spending God knows how much on things with no accounting for it.

I'm all for kicking the living shit out of any country that takes us on or attacks us. But folks it's time to bring them home to regroup. We need to build up our fighting forces here and either start a draft or get out of policing the world.Why are we still in Korea? the conflict ended in the early 50's. Why are we still in Europe? It ended in the 40's. They all have armies now and can handle problems on thier own. If there comes a time that they need help from us just drop a dime and we'll check it out.

I want and love a strong healthy military that's young,trained and ready to get in and get out. Not some tired,old 50 year old accountant that's been called up for the third time.

With more than forty years training in Shoto-kan karate the one thing that has been drilled into me is that one never, ever, starts a fight unless attack is imminent. If attacked, end the fight quickly with overwhelming force. Then get out of the area immediatly. This makes sense on a big scale also.
It's time to bring them home to fight another day.
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
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Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1124
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lynn,

It is good to know that there folks like you who can think for themselves, rationally look at a situation, find the facts, and call the BS out for what it is - Bullshit. That is light years ahead of the apparent capabilities of some who foolishly buy this Administration's bullshit as truth and hang on their every word without thinking.
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stubass (stubass)
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Username: stubass

Post Number: 5892
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lynn...No need to worry about the crazy guy with the bad hair in North Korea. He's gotten the message and has now agreed to dismantle his nuclear facilities...and it'll probably cost us some wheat!!!...Oh...and how about that other guy with the nice hairdo in Lybia!!!...Apparently, he's decided that discretion is the better part of valor too!!!...Will wonders never cease???...Wouldn't be that he considered the potential consequences after seeing that we refused to back down in Iraq...would it???...
Still...you're always welcome to party with me ...however...I certainly don't consider myself a "neo-con"...or neo anything for that matter!!!...While my brain sometimes lean's a bit right of center (on matters of national security and defense)...my heart usually leans left!!!...My heart just doesn't work as well when our enemies are determined to kill us and have told us as much!!!...I tend to believe them!!!...

STUBASS
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Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce)
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Username: lynn_bruce

Post Number: 699
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think you're one either Stu.I think we're probably a lot closer on many things than our posts lead people to believe.
Damn it,I think that bouncer thinks we're trouble makers. He just told the bartender to cut off our drinks. What the hell ! Just because we talk a little loud. Stu,go talk to him. I think you can take him. We'll back you up.

Juice, Midnight,drink up we gotta get the hell out of here. Stu's getting his ass kicked.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5893
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That would be a first, Lynn!!!...And all this time...I thought you had my back!!!...

Really, this entire discussion could be encapsulized by honestly answering two very simple questions!!!...

1. If America suddenly opened up the gates...would the overwhelming majority of people be trying to get IN or get OUT???...

2. If a foreign army arrived on the soil of virtually any country on earth...would the citizens of that country rather see the American flag...or the Russian, Chinese, Iranian, or French flag???...

Keep in mind that America has "pulled the bacon out of the fire" for many many nations over the past 100 years...Many of those nations appreciate our sacrifices and have expressed it in many ways, while some others (I won't mention France by name) have seen their own inadequecies exposed when we are forced to interveine on their behalf...and thus...the resentment and animosity spews forth!!!...Not much we can do about that...but look a little closer the next time THEY require our help!!!...It's not easy being the most powerful nation on earth, and it carries with it enormous responsibility...but I'd much rather it be us than anyone else!!!...

Now guys...it's three against one...BAM>>>THUD>>>CRASH>>>... and as Elton John said..."I'm still standing"!!!...

STUBASS


(Message edited by STUBASS on November 29, 2007)
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
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Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1125
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. The answer is "In" of course.

2. The answer would be which ever "flag" can offer help....which explains why a lot of countries have the problems they do. They go with whomever they think, or are convinced by their leaders say is dangling the shiniest carrot.

Many are under the "assumption" that because we are the USA, we are automatically the "preferred" choice of everyone in such a circumstance. If that were true, neither this thread nor this discussion would be happening.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
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Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2772
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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marxthespot (marxthespot)
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Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1128
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
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Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2774
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
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Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2775
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
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Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2776
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 11:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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just7numbers (just7numbers)
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Username: just7numbers

Post Number: 3407
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL!!!! These are all just great!!

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2777
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 8:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Might as well resurrect THIS old chestnut. Bush at his most typical....



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marxthespot (marxthespot)
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Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1131
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 9:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This last one about the "Bush/Bin Laden" flip-flop is irrefutable evidence that the current administration is not only incompetent, and inauthentic, but also full of shit.

These things were said just six months apart. I remember seeing Bush saying these remarks as they were reported various newscasts.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
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Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2781
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But the amazing thing to me is that Bush and members of his administration (past AND present....because they have all contributed to the MESSES we are in...and are culpable)...walk such a subtle line (and it's the ONLY subtle thing they have done) between incompetence and deviousness. Deviousness takes a certain modicum of intelligence. But so many things done by Bush and his traitors to the constitution have just been so patently STUPID to their OWN ENDS...from things that they have said that got them into trouble,to things that they DIDN'T say that would have kept them out of trouble, to things they have done
that if they thought about it for a moment more, they would have made a decision that wouldn't have made them look so stupid or deceitful. I just don't get it. They MUST be STUPID...for trying to be so deceitful.



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Ralph Terrana (ralpht)
Moderator
Username: ralpht

Post Number: 6494
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They're just plain stupid John. And dangerous.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
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Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9681
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ralph:

More dangerous than them are "John & Jane Q Public" who re-elect them & repeat their every utterances without question or even a cursory investigation of the facts.

These folks are only able to do what the American public has allowed them to do. How anyone could have seen the first horror show that was Bush' 1st 4 years in office & re-elected them, is beyond my understanding.

He didn't "win" the election, he "bum rushed" the festivities much like a gangster would. Not only that, but they "won" not due to playing up what we were going to do to improve OUR COUNTRY, but rather due to a platform of fear.

Much like the guy Guiliani, who from up-close inspection & observation is in my opinion a fake-ass (had to add that for legal purposes) is trying to do now.

They have no answers for health care, they have no answers for poverty, they have no answers for crime & an ever-shrinking American job base, soaring utility costs, gas prices or anything else. So given the myriad of problems that we DO HAVE, the only one that they can use as a platform that will illicit any passion from the natives is the "War" on terrorism.

It's too bad that domestic economic terrorism isn't being fought as hard as trying to find terrorists whom likely have you on speed dial & whose relatives you gave safe passage out of this country after the towers fell.

Or is all of this just pacifist propaganda from us spineless, lily-livered malcontents as well?

(Message edited by juicefree20 on November 30, 2007)
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
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Post Number: 2782
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
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Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9684
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a question...

Does anyone have any thoughts on our aspiring, "tough-as-nails" 9/11 savior who was just caught uhh...playing a little loose with facts & some pretty creative bookkeeping?

This person absolutely lambasted President Clinton for lying about the Lewinsky drama. He THEN turned around & sought to drag his mistress into Gracie Mansion while STILL married. Then tried to have his OWN marriage annulled, as though it never happened & that God & the rest of us would forget that it ever happened.

Well showing the absolute arrogance & gall of the man, it comes out that his excursions with his new "leading lady", excursions that occurred WHILE he was still married, was done at the public's expense. Now, he's calling it an attempt to focus on his personal life.

No shit Sherlock!

Politics is all about focusing on ones personal life & trying to find skeletons in the closet or chinks in ones armor. So, none of this should come as any surprise to him. Especially since he was one of the masters of such behavior.

Eventually the funds were paid back, but the way that the matter was handled & funds disbursed was done in order to deceive & to keep people from knowing that as mayor, he was sneaking behind his wife's back & enjoying some fun in the Hamptons with...

If a guy could be that sneaky & play creative bookkeeping for his own personal reasons, then why in hell would I ever trust him to do right as the President of our country?

He was credited for being a "crime-stopper" & everyone gives him credit for cleaning up the streets of New York. While I do give him some credit for that, I have to do so grudgingly, because that was accomplished by following the "Safe Cities, Safe Streets" program that Mayor David Dinkins put into place. But, he doesn't get the credit for that initiative.

Other than than, this man is not a unifier, he had one of the most polarizing administrations in N.Y.C. history & race relations took a huge step backward under his watch.

The truth is, the only platform that he has is fear...the fear of terrorism & to keep Americans paranoid & petrified about that which MIGHT occur. That & that alone is his platform & sole qualification.

And that & that alone simply isn't enough to solve our ills, nor drag our country out of the morass that it's currently in.

We'll be safe from the terrorists, but still struggle to pay our rent, stop our homes from going into foreclosure, educate our kids & God help us should we be so ridiculous as to get sick or heaven forbid, grow old.

These folks have no answers at all for us, the working class. But they give such lovely gifts to their corporate friends.

That bell that you hear isn't "Avon calling".

I think that it's Halliburton!
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5900
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Geez Juice...based on your previous comments...I'm ready to immediately move to the Easter Islands, where at last report, only about a third of the population are complete idiots (or better yet...Fantasy Island where nary an idiot inhabits that little plot of land), since as you state...over half the American population are idiots (amazingly, they the same folks who may happen disagree with you on certain issues)...How the F*** did we EVER land on the freaking moon???...LOL!!!...


STUBASS

(Message edited by STUBASS on November 30, 2007)
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9687
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stu:

The proof is in the pudding & that brown colored mess sure ain't Jello brand chocolate pudding & Bill Cosby sure as hell ain't trying to sell it either.

Ask yourself one question...

Is the outlook for the future for our children & today's generation better or worse than your parents had for you?

Unlike the optimism that we felt in the late '60s & early '70s, can you truthfully say that you see a bright tomorrow for this generation of kids, or do you see more of the same?

Everyone keeps trying to say how peachy-keen everything is. Ironically, the experts have gone on record on several occasions & have pointed out how all things considered, that this Generation X is the first generation whose relative style of life & prospects for the future WILL NOT EXCEED NOR EQUAL that of its parents.

I didn't say that, the governmental & economic experts said that.

And when you think of the growing numbers of the working poor, people who are busting their asses from 9-5 & then some, while struggling just to break even, you have to realize that something wrong here. Though no laws guaranteed any of us anything, exactly at what point in American history did it become acceptable for greed to rule to the extent where even two working parents would have to struggle to keep a roof over their head?

There are those who think that things are simply wonderful. They simply refuse to believe that everyone's lives can't be as rewarding as theirs are. And if not, it's only because those "lazy" folks aren't trying hard enough. After all, they too can have "the good life" & enjoy cruises & the like. To that, I have but one suggestion...

They like cruises & want to discover new worlds?

Sure they do. So here's a suggestion...

Go & explore the world of Jamaica...JAMAICA, QUEENS. Bask in the splendor & see the natives in their natural habitat. Observe them as they go to work everyday, pay their taxes, bust their asses & still struggle to make ends meet.

Everyone likes the Islands, right?

Sure they do.

SO, make the next stop on the itinerary the lovely islands known as Staten, Coney, Brooklyn or even the Rockaways.

Everyone's so damn concerned with discovering the world. Well, some can discover a whole new & different world right here in America. Instead of getting their information from Gangster Rap records & movies like "Boyz N The Hood", they can come & see first hand what like is like for many hard working people.

And what many might discover is that there are a lot of people whom are not much different than they are. If they hang around long enough, maybe they might discover first hand the frustration of being underpaid & under-served by the "Powers-That-Be".

Maybe if they did, they'd understand that many times when people don't "make it", it's not because they're shiftless & lazy, but bust their asses like you wouldn't believe. Maybe then they'd come to understand that contrary to popular belief & myth, that the overwhelming majority of Blacks & Latinos are not content to sit back & collect welfare & bitch & moan about their plight in life.

Maybe then they'd understand that just like them, all that we want is a fair shot at having the same success & lives that they have. Not to have someone give us anything, but merely to have our hard work rewarded with adequate compensation.

But, that would mean that too many people would have to look in the mirror & accept the fact that some of their long-held beliefs have been wrong & that the truth as was advertized was anything but that. But to be honest, I fully realize that it's so much easier to hold on to the misconceptions.

I guess that for some, reciting the status quo intact makes for more restful & comfortable sleep at night. It's amazing how so much suffering & pain in our OWN country, can be soothed by the level of our own relative prosperity. Which in the overall scheme of things, amounts to mere crumbs.

And after stepping over the 10th homeless person that day, they can send a care package to Sally Struthers or whomever & feel better about themselves because they "made a difference" in someone's life. Like $50 will begin to address the ills of all of those suffering children elsewhere.

Especially once they divvy up the check to pay for all of those "Non-Profit" salaries & expenses, that is.

Again, while we're on our quest to save the world, who in the hell ever steps up to save us here at home?
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5902
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If what you say is true Juice...also remember that in the 60's and 70's...people were willing to sacrifice more and leave a mother at home to raise their families, doing without sometimes!!!...Two, three, and four car families were not as important then. People getting in over their heads with adjustable mortgages they'd know they couldn't afford if they just sat down to do the math instead of spending all their time trying to figure out how to keep up with The Jonses!!!...People weren't running their credit cards (those who even had them) up to the limit by purchasing expensive playstations, I-pods, E-pods, and F-pods, 200 dollar sneakers for their kids, dirt bikes, 200 dollar cell phone bills (statistics also show that 80 percent of families living under the poverty level have cable television...whatever that means)...lets put that trip to Hawaii on the Visa card and worry about paying for it later!!!...I review peoples credit reports numerous times on a daily basis...thousands of times per year, and it's pretty obvious that America has an obsession on spending money on things that our parents would never have even considered!!!...The result often becomes unsupervised kids dropping out of school at record numbers, gang banging, babies having babies, etc etc etc!!!...The solution is really not that abstract!!!......It's parents being there and raising their kids, and insisting that schools educate their kids and that their kids GET educated, kids having curfews (a novel approach), kids having time set aside to do their homework and parents reviewing their work and being involved, parents spending what quality time they have with their kids instead of pursuing their own individual means of recreation, getting your kids involved in helping others and teaching them respect for their elders, law enforcement enforcing the law, and the rest!!!...Many parents are doing just that...but not enough...and no government program in the world is a suitable substitute for these basic responsibilities of parenthood!!!...

Now...since I must go to the mall today...I'm gonna crack up (inside) realizing that one out of every two people I see there is a complete and total moron (I hope that I don't put myself in the wrong category, but numerically, it's entirely possible)!!!...I just need to try to figure out who is whom!!!...

Let's also look at progress in narrowing the economic divide!!!...A recent Newsweek article pointed out prior to 1980, 6.7 percent of Black families had a household income exceeding 75-thousand dollars. Today, those same families, based on adjustments for inflation, etc, indicate that nearly 17 percent of Black families household incomes exceed 75-thousand dollar per year!!!...While I'd still call that progress...Closing that gap between Blacks at just under 17 percent, and Whites, today just over 30-percent means there's still much work still to be done, however, the best way to accomplish that, I believe, lies in the factors I mentioned in my opening paragraph...or the government just writing every household a check for 75-thousand dollars every year (and you think we have a deficit NOW???)!!!...

Just one final aside Juice, relating to my opening paragraph in this post...I have an assistant manager whom I've known for about 17 years. I originally hired him as a salesperson at a different dealership many years ago. He happens to be African American, which may not even be germain to this point (since I have employees from many different racial and ethnic backgrounds), but this particular guy is a single parent raising two kids at home due to a divorce situation. This guy is involved with his kids, gets them involved in many activities, spends valuable free time with them, and stresses education. It's not that he doesn't have a personal social life as well, because he does...but when he sometimes asks me if he can take off from work for an hour to make an appearance at his 12 year old sons Jr league football game, I am usually happy to oblige, and cover his employees for him the best I can. If I can help someone be a good and caring parent, I know that it will benefit society in the long run. I had another employee who used to play profession football, and he too would get involved in his sons organized football league, and I would try to accomodate him!!!...On the other hand...when an employee asks to take off for an hour, and I know that they'll likely return to work with red eyes and smelling from reefer, then I may not even let that person leave the premesis to eat lunch (mostly for their own protection)!!!...What they do on their own time is their business...what they do on company time is MY business!!!...

STUBASS





(Message edited by STUBASS on November 30, 2007)
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2783
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice....it's no use.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2784
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1134
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There was a mention of moving to Easter Island.

They say that Easter Island is lovely this time of year and highly recommended because they would gladly welcome those idiot folk who love to defend and kiss-ass the Bush Administration and the Neo-Con crappers.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2786
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What a TERRIBLE thing to do to the folks of Easter Island.
Isn't Bush conjuring up some lies so he can take THAT over too?
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johno (johno)
6-Zenith
Username: johno

Post Number: 1623
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

New Hillary Clinton campaign slogan:
Hillary Clinton - She's The Bomb.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9690
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stu:

To address your first 2 sentences, there's a tremendous difference & it wasn't as simple as you're making it out to be.

For one thing, back in the '50s & '60s, for many families, that's the way that it was & society pretty much dictated it. With that said, there were many, many, many families of color, whom through economic necessity had TWO working parents. That was possible because often, we had the extended family & Grandma or even a neighbor made sure that we kept in line.

At that point, women hadn't began burning their bras & asserting themselves as they began to do in the late '60s & early '70s. I recall being all of 7 in the 2nd grade, when in 1967 Virginia Slims began their "You've come a long way baby to get to where you are today" cigarette campaign. By then, things had changed & women were no longer content with being housewives, with no ambitions of their own.

Another thing that you're overlooking is the fact that as the 60s moved into the '70s, with the oil embargos, sugar & coffee rationing, the economic recession & ever increasing costs, many women went to work not necessarily out of desire, but due to economic need.

The cost of living, especially in big cities became so high that it took 2 salaries just to keep ones head above water. And the cost of living has only increased since then, along with the diminished returns on what our money can buy.

And when you look at this as one part of a grander scheme & how the American family has been hurt, you may also discern that this is part of a design which seems to have been an assault on the American family at large.

Most families simply aren't "families" in the context of how they used to be when I was growing up.

As regards your last paragraph, I have no doubt about your good works. The fact that I don't see things as you do, doesn't lead me to believe that you're a horrible person. I simply chalk it up to the fact the we just see things through a different pair of eyes, from a different point of view & likely very different experiences. Your works are not in question here, but rather, the attitudes & thought processes of far too many calloused people who are firmly in denial. Their denials & deeds or lack thereof are very much in question.

Though often I speak of Black & White & the ills that plague our overall relationships, I've also addressed issues that transpire in my own backyard & have never made any excuses for them. In fact, speaking the truth about them on more than a few occasions has cost me "friends" & if so, I really don't care.

I make no excuses for the wrongs of either side, not even my own & if doing so is the cost of friendship, then that's a "friendship" that I have no use for. I'm not into quoting the "party line", nor going along to get along. There are many people who can tell you that if given a choice between trying to follow the dictates of others, or following my own road, that I'll follow my own road. I always have & always will because I give less than a damn about a popularity contest. Like Trix, that's for kids.

I learned as a kid, that crowded road often leads to no good. A person has to learn to walk their own road & if it's not there, then you pave one. But, I was taught to never follow anyone or anything blindly & certainly not due to peer pressure.

Saved me from a whole lot of trouble & likely a few addictions, as well.

Regardless, when all is said & done, just as you & I would be, these folks deserve to be called out for the wrong that they do. Their power is not absolute, nor was it designed to be that way.

They're not Gods. They're human beings. No more & no less & they should be held accountable for their deeds.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5904
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just for the record...I wasn't trying to point out my good deeds, since these particular fathers made their own decision to want to be closely involved in their kids activities, even at the cost of personal sacrifice... although I appreciate the kind words...but rather point out that parents, when they choose to be, CAN find ways to be positively involved in their children's lives, and these kids with parents of that mentality will likely go much further in life than those kids unfortunately lacking in such parental support and involvement!!!...Simple as that!!!...

STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2787
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice...don't you hate writing ALL that and NOT having it at ALL addressed. It's like having a conversation with the air....dead air.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9694
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johnny:

Honestly, regardless of response, I believe that discussions like this are of benefit.

Even if it proves to be that most people here don't understand my point, a lot of people look at our forum. If even a few people read what I've write & it causes them to at least consider what I'm saying, then it serves a purpose.

I guess that it's my hope that there'll be someone looking in who might understand the points that I'm trying to make & maybe begin to look at things from a different perspective.

Then again, that may be aiming too high :-)
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2788
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice...believe me...even though I didn't say it directly....I hear all your words and appreciate your time and thought, as well as your philosophy.
And I appreciate your hopefulness about others possibly seeing things in a different way. I try myself to be open to new perspectives; of course, how they are expressed has a bearing on how they are viewed. Some who have posted hear have made it very clear, from early on, that they
don't really care about sharing opinions. They have a huge need to overbear their beliefs as if they are the only beliefs that are valid. They need to bluster their pseudo-elite positions, and tease with the notion that they are sympatico...but they aren't. You can see, in this thread among others, who is heartfelt and cares about what terrible things are happening and who is empty, bitter and intractable...so inauthentic in their denial of the reality.
ANd they have a right to share that viewpoint as well as anyone. You reminded me of that.
I appreciate your heartfelt opinions. Thank you, Juice...
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2789
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another great old chestnut...."There was an embarrassing moment in the White House earlier today. They were looking around while searching for George Bush's military records. They actually found some old Al Gore ballots."
—David Letterman
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1136
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juicefree,

You express your views in a thoughtful and sincere manner. I hate to see your thoughtfulness taken advantage of by certain others whose main purpose is to basically "hear themselves speak" or see their words in print (with triple punctuation) so that their own ego is stroked. People like this don't really care to listen to or possibly learn from differing viewpoints. I think it really is like having a conversation with dead air.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5912
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For the record, I have had many discussions, agreements and disagreements with Juice for several years, and have always found him to be informative, intelligent, respectful, and forthcoming, regardless of whether we happen to agree or disagree on any particular topic!!!...Even if I disagree with him, I still respect his opinions!!!...

You other two are a couple of ideological clowns!!!...

STUBASS
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5914
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Lynn!!!...

This story could as easily be from "The Twilight Zone" as it could be from the "will wonders never cease" department!!!...


CNN (no less) is reporting that Rep John Murtha (the far and away leading Congressional critic of our present engagement in Iraq) held a news conference TODAY, and stated that our current military "surge" is WORKING!!!...He also says that he is in direct talks with the administration, and believes that he and The President are close to putting a package together for continued funding of the Iraqi mission!!!...He goes on to criticize the Iraqi government for not bringing the various factions of that nations ethnic and religious groups together fast enough...and I never thought I'd say this...but I agree with Murtha on that point as well (to be sung to the melody of "What A Difference A Day Makes")!!!...

On a more substantive political note...It'll be interesting to see how the Democratic presidential candidates deal with this!!!...Do they distance themselves from Murtha, in an effort to entice the voters on the far left...or do they now start an earlier than expected shift to the middle...or both???...I guess it depends on the candidate!!!...I don't think that Kucinich will be playing "Stars And Stripes Forever" on the CD in his Dodge Stratus quite yet!!!... Hmmmmm!!!...

STUBASS
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1138
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh no, there was absolutely no "Twilight Zone" moment here...

In very typical and transparent fashion (!!!), John's Murtha's comment above is improperly and misleadingly quoted.

The part that was DELIBERATELY left out above from Murtha's statement is that the while the surge has provided some "breathing space" for the Iraqi government to get it's act together, they haven't done "shit" (my word, not Murtha's, but his same meaning). In the meantime, our troops continue to get injured and killed, but that is perfectly okay with the Bush administration and the right-wing sympathizing ass kissers (!!!).....More "morning drive-time"
dead air from our local mis-quoter(!!!).... YAWN!
----------------





"..."Even those who tried to stay awake just couldn't!"
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5918
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 11:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Improperly quoted???...Isn't that an oximoron...the operative word being moron!!!...

Thank you for your (non)response Mr Kuchinich!!!...I'm sure she is yawning at YOU!!!...

STUBASS

(Message edited by STUBASS on November 30, 2007)
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1141
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Improperly quoted" is a proper use of grammar and "oxymoron" is spelled with a "y" and not an "i."

A faux wordsmith you may be, but still an expertly obsequious supporter of baneful foreign policy.


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Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce)
6-Zenith
Username: lynn_bruce

Post Number: 701
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 8:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John Murtha for president!! A decorated marine that actually fought on the ground in a war and actually KNOWS a thing or two about the military and knows how bad it is to get our troops mired down in attacking a country without making sure all other options were tried.

Looks like you wrong about Murtha on this one Stu.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5920
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In what context Lynn???...I thought that many of his previous public remarks were ill timed, ill advised, and lent comfort to our enemy!!!...I really don't understand his about face, although I do agree with him on the state of the politics in Iraq, and this is an issue which must be resolved by the Iraqi's themselves!!!...Contrast Murtha's current evaluation to Sen Reid of Nevada...who has been loudly proclaiming that the war in Iraq was lost!!!...I believe that this is primarily an issue for the Democratic Party to deal with right now, and it will be interesting to see how various positions will be crafted!!!...

STUBASS
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5925
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 11:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is little disagreement within the Republican ranks as pertains to the 'war on terror" and the war in Iraq more specifically (save Libertarian "fringe" candidate Ron Paul), so the Republicans are stuck with debating economic and socio/cultural issues (and whether a Mormon should become President)!!!...They will likely maintain those foreign policy positions throughout both the primary and general elections!!!...The real shifting of positions will likely emerge from the Democratic primary situation, as once a candidate locks in the nomination, a shift is likely in an effort to garner more votes from the middle of the political spectrum necessary to win a general election!!!...On social and economic issues, it's the Democrats, I believe, who will ultimately march more in lock step and not vary on those positions much!!!...

STUBASS
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1145
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There was no "about face" by Murtha. He continues to point out that the problem still remains the same - we're in Iraq having our troops injured and killed while the Iraq government does "shit" to effectively get their act together.

Talk about "lending comfort to our enemies", well - our enemies continue to use the Iraq war as a training ground, and our troops to shoot at in the process. All the while, the Bush Adminstration and their supporters (!!!) think this is acceptable - which makes them either really misguided or just plain subhuman.
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Ralph Terrana (ralpht)
Moderator
Username: ralpht

Post Number: 6498
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 11:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Subhuman seems to fit Marx.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5931
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And I would have bet money (and won) that Murtha would have significantly altered his view's before you would Ralph (you old intrangisent fuddy duddy)!!!...LOL!!!...

STUBASS
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5933
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rep Murthas remarks can be spun any way one wishes I suppose, however, just this morning I've seen 3 different news reports on 3 different news outlets, and ALL are reporting that Murtha clearly stated that we are WINNING militarily in Iraq at this point!!!...Deaths in Iraq are at an all time low, and Al Queda in Iraq has been all but decimated...with the Iraqi populace turning against them in conjunction with the United States military!!!...Murtha, the guy who previously stated that he would not fund one more dime to the war effort in Iraq, now says he's close to a deal with the administration to continue funding for the war effort!!!...Spin it any way you will!!!...Once again...this is the dilema for the Democratic party, who seems intent on snatching "defeat" from the jaws of "victory", and have placed all their bets on our ultimate defeat in Iraq, and it's just not going their way right now!!!...There has never been a poll asking the American people if they want "defeat" in Iraq...but if there were, I'm convinced that the vast majority of the American people would vote a resounding NO!!!...If the Iraqi government does not get it's shit together, however, then f*** em, but I suspect that we'll now see lots of movement for reconciliation within Iraq, which once again, will help make that part of the world a safer and more prosperous place, and allow us here in America to enjoy more security and ultimately...a more peaceful world!!!...

STUBASS

(Message edited by STUBASS on December 01, 2007)
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5934
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

God Willing!!!...

STUBASS
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Ralph Terrana (ralpht)
Moderator
Username: ralpht

Post Number: 6501
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stu,
I've been called a lot of things in my life...But Fuddy Duddy...(??? ) Guess we're getting old Stu old pal...
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5935
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK Ralph...you got me there!!!...

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burdon, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty".

John F Kennedy...Inaugural address, January 1961

SO...I assume we must come to one of the following conclusions....

1. JFK was full of shit???...

2. Saddam Hussein was our friend???...

Just curious...which is it???...

STUBASS
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1146
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love it when those who fear that there viewpoints have little or no merit in fact try to somehow attach the words of a highly regarded person who has been dead for decades and assume that they know how that person would handle a current situation.

Now THAT kind of practice is full of shit.
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JAI NANCE (rhythm66)
6-Zenith
Username: rhythm66

Post Number: 4538
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HEY STU,I THOUGHT THAT WE DIDN'T INVENT SADDAM HUSSEIN UNTIL THE 70'S?...AS FOR JFK,HECK HE WAS MORE THAN LIKELY IN THE WHITE HOUSE POOL WITH MARILYN WHEN HE CAME UP WITH THAT LINE...[OH MR.PRESIDENT YOU'RE SO SMART]!
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5940
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just quoting the man marx...just quoting!!!...Are you saying that quotations by Washington, Lincoln (who have both been dead a lot longer than JFK), Dr King, and Malcolm X are MEANINGLESS today...or just those remarks that disagree with your perspective???...So am I to assume that anything Jesus or Moses said is irrelevent today as well...since they've both been dead for over 2,000 years???...

Jai...You may be right!!!...

STUBASS



(Message edited by STUBASS on December 01, 2007)
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1147
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Posted above on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 1:01 pm:

'...SO...I assume we must come to one of the following conclusions....

1. JFK was full of shit???...

2. Saddam Hussein was our friend???...

Just curious...which is it???..."
-----------------

Your were assuming, as well as quoting in a futile effort to falsely give your viewpoint "credibility."

That is the very definition of "spin."
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Ralph Terrana (ralpht)
Moderator
Username: ralpht

Post Number: 6502
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seems to me you guys are going in circles now. I don't think any of you guys are going to convince one another that yours is the correct ideology.
Tell you what: Continue...have fun. Please don't send me emails of complaint though.
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Lynn Bruce (lynn_bruce)
6-Zenith
Username: lynn_bruce

Post Number: 702
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We've all stated our opinion here and we can agree to disagree. Let's all hope that we settle down Iraq soon and get the hell out with a so-called victory. I hope it IS under Bush's watch so the Democratic president will be able to concentrate a little more on Americans instead of saving other countries.

On a different note:

How about Hugo Chavez stating that if people riot sunday after he "WINS" dictator for life in Venezuala,he's going to blame America for instigating the riots and cut off all oil to America. Boy,if it's not one thing it's another. Here we go again!!

We really do heed to concentrate on an alternative energy source just for our national defense. Just so we can tell these pompous assholes in oil producing countries around the world to go fornicate themselves. Watch how they all come calling with hat in hand then.

Yeah,sheik and presidente, all we need this month is about thee hundred cases of three-in-one oil. You want parts for that fine car of yours? I'm sorry but due to supply and demand the price has gone up 10000%. Although we do have some lovely camels and some pre-owned Shiwinn bikes here that were owned by an older lady that we'll let go at cost for you.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5941
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chavez...another real "winner" Lynn...but first...I'm still intrigued by marx's self professed ability to speak for dead Presidents...yet one must ask???...Is this form of "telepathy" a gift that a privileged few are born with...or is this skill something which us "others" can all learn through training, hard work, diligence, and practice???...

STUBASS
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1149
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I haven't posted anything about dead presidents - that came from you and your invocation of JFK above at Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 1:01 pm and how you tried, in futility, to use that into giving your point of view credibility.

Also, that kind of BS that you just posted and tend to post all too frequently was clearly pointed out for all to see above yesterday Friday, November 30, 2007 - 5:33 pm in response to someone else who was trying to have a conversation with you:

"....Don't you hate writing ALL that (to Stubass) and NOT having it at ALL addressed. It's like having a conversation with the air....dead air."
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5945
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So I'll take that to mean that you were BORN with that unique gift marx!!!...Just you and Mrs Houdini!!!...Shucks!!!...

I know it just KILLS some people to know that our military is winning!!!..Sorry!!!...Perhaps you'll have better luck if and when we get to Iran LOL!!!...

STUBASS

(Message edited by STUBASS on December 01, 2007)
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2791
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Winning???????? Sounds like someone's been freebasing some AWFULLY BAD CRACK...or maybe I'm confusing that with where th words are coming out of.....LOL!!!
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2792
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have you folks seen the latest piece of art that imitates life? Yes...our good old fake cowboy,
traitor to the nation, lying, bastard of the racist Barbara is now the subject of an art presentation. This includes all of his criminal cabinet....ahhhhh...I LOVE the truth that lies in art. But, keep in mind...the neocons are very upset...I'm surprised that they would have qualms about the truth being represented in this manner. Touchy...touchy!!! LOL!!!










An exhibit at the main branch of the New York Public Library is drawing outrage from Republicans because some of the work on display depicts former and current members of the Bush administration posing for fake mug shots. Each official in the visionary series, called “Line Up”, is seen holding a slate with a date of arrest corresponding to a date when the official said something about Iraq that was not “reality-based.” Matthew Walter, director of communications for the state GOP, told the Daily News:

It is simply inappropriate to have political attack art, in the form of egregious doctored photographs of the President and other high-ranking officials who have dedicated their lives to public service, in a taxpayer-funded building frequented by schoolchildren and the general public.

No wonder conservatives are always ready to cut budgets for libraries – they’ve become places where an innocent schoolchild’s allegiance to public servants like George Bush and Karl Rove can be egregiously corrupted. Of course, it’s important to note that “Line Up”, by artists Nora Ligorano and Marshall Reese, is part of a much larger exhibit called “Multiple Interpretations: Contemporary Prints in Portfolio”, which includes prints from 23 different artists on a wide variety of themes. Among them are artists like Olafur Eliasson, who is the subject of an upcoming retrospective at MoMA, as well Ernesto Caivano, whose decidedly apolitical "Knight Interlude" consists of twelve prints depicting a knight transforming into a tree.

Herb Scher, the director of public relations for the NYPL, spoke with Gothamist and stressed that "the library collects work from a wide range of political satire going back centuries. This work fits into that tradition of caricature. At the NYPL we document what is happening in the culture and political satire is important to have in our collections to document for future scholars."

Nevertheless, we can expect the mug shots controversy to spread and are counting the minutes until Giuliani starts reliving his “Sensation” glory days by chiming in. What do you think – should the city slash the NYPL’s funding and burn all the art books or just let the liberals enjoy their ineffectual little fantasy at taxpayers’ expense?
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2793
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ralph...by the way....thank you VERY much!
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5948
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What a "CLASS" act!!!...

STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2794
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 3:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1150
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Have you noticed that when someone's (!!!) penchant for twisting the facts and disrespectfully misrepresenting the statements of other posters on this thread has been unequivocally exposed, their posts have only about one-tenth the number of words as per usual for them?




(Message edited by marxthespot on December 02, 2007)
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2797
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So there IS a silver lining to every cloud!!! LOL



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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5957
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Johnny!!!...Why don't you save it for the 12 or 13 people who listen to your radio show!!!...

STUBASS
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9700
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johnny & Marx:

I thank you for both your kind words, as well as your understanding. I'm sorry for the late response, I've been a bit busy, as well as being caught up with similar repartee in the "Patti LaBelle" thread :-) I also wanted to give serious thought & give a proper response to your questions.

I have to truthfully say that there have been many times when Stu & I have disagreed, none moreso than during the Katrina debacle. That was one time when I became very angry at Stu & rather than sharing my opinions, it became somewhat personal for me.

But, I've had more than a few dust-ups here, a few which are very well documented & sadly, well-remembered here. From those situations, I've come to learn a few things about life in general & about myself specifically, as well as how to handle my disagreements.

What I discovered is that to take disagreements such as this & to turn them into personal issues, usually tends to obscure the bigger picture. What happens is that the focus is diverted away from the larger issue & becomes directed on the combatants arguing. In the process, the bigger picture which is of paramount importance gets lost. I'd rather keep my focus on the overall situation, than the disagreement that only threatens to obscure it.

Another thing that I came to understand is that if I'm going to take a stance, then I have to be true to it.

For example, I was amongst few here who defended Imus' right to his brand of humor. If I could & did laugh at his jokes when they were about rednecks, himself & others, then it would be tremendously hypocritical of me to become so deeply offended when the jokes were directed my way. I always understood his brand of humor & so did all of those sponsors & everyone else. Aside from that, I have a switch on my radio. If I don't care for his brand of humor, then I have the option not to listen to it.

Just as with the latest drama surrounding Dog. Now, though I don't like what he said, the truth is that it's none of my business. That was a private call, that should never have been made public. As I've said before, you simply can't legislate people's private thoughts. And unless he puts those bigoted words into action, then I have no qualms with his private thoughts. That would set a dangerous precedent, the ramifications of which few people are considering.

Though flawed, America does come with certain freedoms. Aside from slander & screaming "Fire" in a crowded theater, we get away with saying things that would find us in front of a firing squad elsewhere & I appreciate that difference.

However, at the rate that we're going, with everyone scrutinizing the words of others & demanding that people blessed with the gift of free will by God, to have to go to sensitivity training because of something that they've said is ridiculous. Though I may not like the words of the biggest bigot imaginable & might want to wring his neck, as long as he doesn't incite violence or anything that causes anything other than feelings to be hurt, then that bigot has every right to express himself & show himself to be what he is.

And it's the words of bigots that will condemn them. As such I say let them talk as much as they want. It's their ditch that they're digging & they're pulling the covers off of themselves. Why in the world would I ever want such people to be able to operate freely in the dark, when they're doing such a marvellous job of exposing themselves for what they are?

Furthermore, let's say that some people look in here & don't like how we feel about our present administration & tried to start a movement to censure us & send us to classes & the like. The reality is that there are a lot of Americans whom don't share the views that we've expressed here & as such, definitely dislike what we're writing. Some might even label us to be "subversives", simply because we won't quote the party line & look deeper than the surface bullshit that's being spoon-fed us. If there were some sort of movement to legislate our thoughts that diverge from those of many others, then where would we stand?

I don't want anyone interfering with my right to express my views, no matter how unsavory they may be to others. If I have that expectation for myself, then no matter how I may disagree with their thoughts, then I have to extend that to others as well.

As regards Stu, I will give him credit for saying what he feels. I know of many people who say all of the correct P.C. things, but what they practice & preach behind closed doors is quite another thing entirely. Though we often disagree with him, I will credit him for standing behind the courage of his convictions. Though often I emphatically disagree, I can deal with someone like Stu much better than I can a guy who says all of the right words, wears a fancy 3-piece suit, then commences to do things that are the exact opposite of what he's preached.

Because of that, I no longer get angry with Stu for expressing his viewpoints, because I wouldn't want anyone to be angry with me & how I see the world from my little corner of the sky. I've seen words from him that I disagree with, but I haven't seen where he's hurt anyone, so I try to keep it from becoming overly personal & regress to a point where we begin to engage in personal attacks.

Unlike many others, Stu will say what he thinks & again, even though I disagree & don't see the world as he does, I prefer to deal with a guy like Stu who will say what he thinks, because due to the back & forth, I understand how to interact with him. He doesn't come as a wolf in sheep's clothing. Whether you love him or hate him, you know where he stands. Stu is Stu & whether I agree with him, or don't like what he says or how he says it, there are no questions, because at least you know where he's coming from.

By no means am I suggesting that this is an easy stance, or that it doesn't drive me crazy at times. But, like it or not, I'm striving to be fair to all sides & the rights that they have.

I guess that you can call me crazy :-)
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1154
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juicefree,

When you post, I feel as though you are coming from the heart.

I am not saying that Stubass isn't capable of being pithy and sincere in his posts. It's just that all too often, especially with those with whom he disagrees, he chooses to try and manipulate the conversation through a deliberately ambiguous presentation of "information" in hopes that the other person won't challenge him. He does it so often that is seems to indicate a strong desire for attention. This has already been pointed out elsewhere on the SDF today.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9704
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johnny

I understand that & thank you for saying that. Believe me, Stu & I have tread that ground often.

For my part, I simply chalk it up to the cost of doing business & let the chips fall where they may :-)
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5967
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's all good Juice, and like some others, I do respect the way you present your arguments, agree or disagree!!!...That said...one of the great things about being Stu (amongst many) is the fact that I can get pummled one day on Soulful Detroit and accused of being a right wing facist...and the next day, in general conversation or on another music website where I participate, be lambasted for being a left wing apologist (believe it or not)!!!...That fact alone tells me that I'm doing and saying something right...and in the final analysis...it's all about trying to provide a balance, and let folks in virtually like minded (lockstep) settings...left or right...understand that there is often a different side to the story!!!...Thats called balance, which I feel there is way to little of in todays highly charged partisan world!!!...

STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2798
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice...this is Johnny...you responded to Marx above with my name.
I appreciate your words, although I don't feel that Stubass is worth the amount of energy you HAVE and DO put up with. Stubass has a right to his opinion...nobody is questioning that. Stubass has an awful lot to say. You can see the pressure in all of his posts...a thousand words when a hundred will do, exclamation points after virtually everything, like he is some child with ADHD. Now I have no problem with mental illness, because it is beyond the affected person's control. They are pitiable and deserve our compassion. But at best, he acts like he is intellectual when he is merely a snob with little tolerance for those who disagree with him, and, at worst, he is a bully, ready to be verbally abusive when no provocation is made, just a differing opinion.
I understand that bullies have usually been bullied themselves...and our hearts should go out to the abused. But adults should be beyond that kind of behavior, so my compassion there is minimal.
You give Stubass credit for saying what he feels.
I really don't. I would give credit to someone who says what they feel when the situation isn't an easy one. He has no problem saying how he feels. I'm sure he posts WHAT he posts with the same ease as when he takes a dump. That would be like giving Bush credit because, as so many Bush supporters used to say "he really believes in this war...it doesn't matter if the decision is wrong...he BELIEVES in what he is doing". So did Charles Manson. It' a very easy thing for Stubass...if it wasn't, his posts would be pared by at least half. It's something he loves to do....so what credit is deserved for that? Stubass takes his freedom of speech for granted. Maybe he shouldn't, as Bush finds new and more remarkable ways to take those freedoms away. I would find it worth giving Stubass credit for trying to offer posts that aren't focused on him, or if I saw in his post an attempt to take the high road. But those won't happen. I appreciate, Juice, how you have come to be discerning and thoughtful in your posting. I don't remember when you weren't.
I thank you for your post, Juice.

So let's get back to what this thread is REALLY about...showing the Bush administration for the infection on the country that it IS.



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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5970
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Juce...Please accept any complimentary comments from me the way they were actually intended, without all the kiss ass slobbering that "Mr Radio" is puckering up for before I'm forced to reach for the ol "barf bag" !!!...Hope that was succinct enough LOL!!!...

By the way...I appreciate your efforts at amatuer psychoanalysis (since psychology was one of my two majors in college)!!!...Do you also do amatuer brain surgery???...If so...perhaps you could practice on yourself!!!...

STUBASS

(Message edited by STUBASS on December 02, 2007)
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1155
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know Johnny & Juice,

It is so hilarious that while attempting to insult Johnny, Stubass uses that as a vehicle to try to "elevate himself" [i.e., "since psychology was one of my two majors in college!!!", and "one of the great things about being Stu (amongst many)..."]. Of course, he fails. The only thing I can think of that would describe such bullshit is that Stubass has his head up his own ass.




(Message edited by marxthespot on December 02, 2007)
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2799
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stubass....now I know why you usually post such endless word weary monologues. When you post those brief ones, it's easy to see all that is lacking.
Did you major in "dead air" in college too, or is that just a genetic gift?.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5976
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now I'm having some fun (Frick & Frack all at once)!!!...I don't know about this stupid "dead air" kick you guys seem to be fixated on...but I was actually on live air at REAL radio station's (unlike you Mr Radio)...and paid real dollars!!...As a matter of fact...I've probably got a bigger market share than you when I page my employees to my office over the loudspeaker LOL!!!...


As for my resume...personal and professional...I apologise if it makes you guys feel inferior...thats really not my intention, since there are many people with much more impressive resumes than mine!!!...

We're Winning The War (that's sure to piss you two off)

STUBASS
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Ralph Terrana (ralpht)
Moderator
Username: ralpht

Post Number: 6504
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I notice all is going well here.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2800
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stubass posted:"...one of the great things about being Stu (amongst many)..."

Jealousy one of the great things about being Stu, too?
Why you would even feel the need to "compete" with me and my radio show by comparing us is beyond me, Stubass.
My station is a small non-commercial, community supported station and I am a volunteer DJ. Money doesn't even come into the picture. I have a wonderful listenership that I truly appreciate. Many are from the SDF, so I guess you are attempting, in you meager way, to insult them too. So that you bring all that baggage up is sort of sad.
What station did you DJ for...."WOLD-D-D-D-D-D-D"?
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 5981
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Obviously major market radio (or stand up comedy) is completely out of the question for either one of you morons!!!...

STUBASS
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Funkyone D.J. Dollar Bil (funkyone)
6-Zenith
Username: funkyone

Post Number: 413
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.motherjones.com/bus h_war_timeline/archives/2008/0 8/bush_war_timeli.html#c121789
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4897
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v= 4PpMdTmVMpo&feature=related
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2801
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Funkyone D.J. and Ms.....these links are most appreciated. They point out exactly what is happening and support the original theme of this thread. I encourage SDF members to view these!
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4898
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought you would find it interesting MidnightJohnny
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2803
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well....Bush DID it AGAIN!!!!!!
Read on...................

Report contradicts Bush on Iran nuclear program

By Matt Spetalnick




WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A new U.S. intelligence report says Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003 and it remains on hold, contradicting the Bush administration's earlier assertion that Tehran was intent on developing a bomb.

The National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) released on Monday could undermine U.S. efforts to convince other world powers to agree on a third package of U.N. sanctions against Iran for defying demands to halt uranium enrichment activities.

Tensions have escalated in recent months as Washington has ratcheted up the rhetoric against Tehran, with U.S. President George W. Bush insisting in October that a nuclear-armed Iran could lead to World War Three.

But in a finding likely to surprise U.S. friends and foes alike, the latest NIE concluded: "We do not know whether (Iran) currently intends to develop nuclear weapons."

That marked a sharp contrast to an intelligence report two years ago that stated Iran was "determined to develop nuclear weapons."

But the new assessment found Iran was continuing to develop technical means that could be used to build a bomb and it would likely be capable of producing enough enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon "sometime during the 2010-2015 time-frame."

The shift in the intelligence community's thinking on Iran comes five years after a flawed NIE concluded neighboring Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction -- a report that helped pave the way for the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003.

No nuclear, chemical or biological weapons were ever found in Iraq and intelligence agencies since have been more cautious about Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, who have repeatedly accused Iran of seeking nuclear weapons, were briefed on the new NIE last Wednesday.

Washington, which insists it wants to solve the Iran problem diplomatically while leaving military options "on the table," is pushing for tougher U.N. sanctions against Tehran but faces resistance from China and Russia.

Iran insists it wants nuclear technology only for civilian purposes, such as electricity generation.

The nuclear standoff has become a major issue in the 2008 U.S. presidential campaign, with candidates weighing in on the prospects for military action against Iran.

U.S. STILL SEES IRANIAN "RISK"

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, among senior Democrats who had requested the updated report on Iran, said the assessment challenged some of the administration's "alarming rhetoric about the threat posed by Iran."

He and other critics had accused Bush trying to rush the country into war again based on faulty intelligence.

Bush's national security adviser said that on balance the report was "good news," insisting it showed Tehran was susceptible to international pressure but that the risk of it acquiring nuclear weapons "remains a very serious problem."

But he added: "The international community has to understand that if we want to avoid a situation where we either have to accept Iran on a road to a nuclear weapon ... or the possibility of having to use force to stop it with all the connotations of World War III, then we need to step up the diplomacy, step up the pressure."

Administration officials denied the new NIE had exposed a serious intelligence lapse but could not explain how agencies failed to detect for four years that Iran's nuclear weapons program had been halted.

Intelligence officials said the suspension involved design and engineering for a bomb and covert uranium-conversion work.

A key NIE finding was that: "Tehran's decision to halt its nuclear weapons program suggests it is less determined to develop nuclear weapons than we have been judging since 2005."

Still, the report said: "We also assess with moderate-to-high confidence that Tehran at a minimum is keeping open the option to develop nuclear weapons."


His audacity rivals one of our SDF members!!!LOL
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1162
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is anyone surprised?.....NO!!

I am just thankful that this may cool down the bullshit rhetoric of going to war in Iran?
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2804
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 6:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

....Now, if only the Democrats can show and maintain a little backbone, the BLIGHT of the
Country (read: BUSH) will get his comeupance.


_______________________________________
Bush, Dems in PR battle on Iraq money
_______________________________________

By ANNE FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON - President Bush and congressional Democrats are locked in a struggle over Iraq spending, with neither side budging and each calculating that their argument will be the one to resonate with voters.

For both sides, this rhetorical tug-of-war has become a question of leadership on national security issues and who is more committed to the troops.

"It's unconscionable to deny funds to our troops in harm's way because some in Congress want to force a self-defeating policy, especially when we're seeing the benefits of success," Bush said in a Rose Garden speech on Monday.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid wasted no time in responding.

"We could have already given our troops what they need in Iraq and funded our critical needs at home if not for the stubborn refusal of President Bush and his Republican enablers to work with us," he told reporters at a Capitol Hill news conference.

The tussle could be on display this week, if the Senate revisits a $50 billion bill to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but call for most troops to come home by Dec. 15, 2008.

The bill is doomed to fail since it is identical to one blocked last month by Senate Republicans, who said Democrats were trying to limit the flexibility of military commanders. The bill failed 53-45, falling seven votes short of the 60 needed to overcome procedural hurdles.

But with Bush blaming Democrats for failing to provide money needed by the troops, party leaders are on the defensive and hoping to switch the public message.

The president was likely to press his case further at a news conference he scheduled for Tuesday morning.

"Democrats want to work with the president, yet he continues to engage in the same tired rhetoric that does not serve the best interests of the American people," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

Once the bill fails in the Senate, it's expected that Congress will not consider another spending bill for Iraq. While it is possible Democrats could allot some money for other military needs, Iraq will be left out of the equation until Congress returns in January.

After that, Democrats won't say what will happen.

"House Democrats have passed a bill that provides our troops with both $50 billion in funding and a strategy to bring them home safely and soon," said

Congress has until mid-February before the Army will cease base operations and until March before the Marines takes similar steps, according to the Pentagon.

Because of the uncertainty, the Pentagon this month will send layoff notices to an unspecified number of civilian employees whose union agreements require 60 days advance notice; the layoffs would be effective next February and could apply to as many as 100,000 civilian employees and 100,000 civilian contractors.

The standoff between Bush and the Democrats is largely on principal, as the Democratic bill would likely have little to no practical effect on force levels in Iraq.

The measure orders that troops start coming home in 30 days — a requirement that Bush is already on track to meet as he begins reversing this year's troop buildup in Iraq. And the 2008 goal to have most troops home is a nonbinding goal, which means Bush could ignore it."



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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9707
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This double-speak comes from an A.P. article & finds Dubya speaking about Tehran. Quotes such as the following is why I don't much care for the man...

"I view this report as a warning signal that they had the program, they halted the program," Bush said. "The reason why it's a warning signal is they could restart it."

Now, first the focus was on Iran NOT proceeding with the development of a nuclear bomb. From their OWN intelligence, Washington admits that Iran stopped the weapons mission FOUR YEARS AGO. An intelligent individual might be led to believe that as Iran hasn't been in the bomb building for 4 years now, that should be good enough. Right???

WRONG!

For Dubya, views this inactivity as a "WARNING" & why? Again I quote:

"The reason why it's a warning signal is they could restart it."

With that kind of thinking, will he go after what's left of Russia, because they may decide to escalate the Space Race & renew a new millenium Cold War? How about Germany? Maybe they'll decide to rebuild that wall & attempt to take over the world again. After all, both of these nations tried to do these things in the past. They should be viewed cautiously & it's a warning that it they did it before, in the wonderful world of Dubya, it could be construed as a warning that if we're not vigilant, they may do it again.

I guess that what I truly dislike about this administration is how the mind of one man & his own desires can lead to such catastrophe.

Most despicable of all is his constant attempt to take advantage of 9/11 & have everyone live in fear. I resent that most of all, because he never truly has to justify it. All that he has to do is to say that it's so.

After 9/11 I said that people need to observe more carefully. I said then that people were going to use that tragedy & the spectre of terrorism to enact laws, covert or otherwise & infringe on some, if not (eventually) all of our freedoms. All under the guise of preventing terrorism. I hadn't considered any listening in on Americans' conversations or the like. But I did expect some people to try to use the situation to their advantage.

Following 9/11, I remember Guiliani using it as a platform to stay on as Mayor following the election. Not that he was exactly John Wayne there, all that he did was not run away. I only credit him for remaining calm, as from my seat in N.Y.C., I saw nothing remotely spectacular or "heroic" about anything that he did. But he's trying to parlay 9/11 into a berth in The Oval Office & as a New Yorker who saw a man run one of the most polarizing administrations in N.Y.C. history, who suddenly & conveniently poses as a "family" man, by having his wife call him during conferences & smiles more for the camera than he ever did in 8 years here...OOPS...my bad...also when he wasn't trying to build Steinbrenner a new stadium & acting like the ultimate "Fan Boy" & sticking his head up...

NEVER MIND!

I give a big tip of the hat to all of those brave Firemen, Policemen, EMT's & volunteer rescue workers who risked life & limb in an attempt to find the remains of perfect strangers...brave men & women many of whom have been feeling the mental & physical effects of the air that they breathed & the horrors that their eyes saw.

And not one of them stopped to think that their lives would never be the same again.

The double-talk & fear mongering of folks like Guiliani & Bush is something that I truly detest. As one who had a ringside seat to the horror known as 9/11, it's sinful to consider that anyone would ever attempt to play on our fear in such a selfish way. As a New Yorker, I have never seen a day like 9/11, have never seen such uncertainty & eeriness & to realize that these folks are trying to capitalize on it turns my stomach.

They tell us that we should go on with our lives, that if we live in fear that the terrorists win. Then they proceed to put out countless warnings about terrorists, their cells & seem to try to instill fear with every report. How many fake "Orange Alerts" did we have to suffer through for at least a year following 9/11?

To me, it seems that in Bush's world, you rule through instilling fear in the minds of Americans, play down to their basest fears & it's a damn shame that more Americans aren't up in arms about it. The lifestyle of the working class is rapidly eroding, the rich get disgustingly richer & regardless of what the spin doctors say, our economy & job base (except for jobs at the local Walmart or Denny's) is rapidly eroding.

But their priority is not strengthening us, but for securing freedom & potential prosperity for a nation of people whom hate us & if history is any indicator, we'll be fighting them in 15 years, or importing their cheaper-made goods here by the camel load, or exporting American jobs over there.

Due to our arrogance & failure to use that space between our ears, too many people fail to consider these things.

I guess that history has to repeat itself & by then, it'll be too late.

Here's the link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22 095352/

(Message edited by juicefree20 on December 04, 2007)
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 6004
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Once again Juice...it all depends on how one chooses to look at things!!!...Obviously, this NIE report will fuel Democratic talking points to the far left constituients whose support they find critical in the primary race...but below the surface of this report (if it is in fact true, since even the authors of the report say that they have "moderate" confidence in those findings...and it's not like our intelligence agencies have ever been wrong before, especially since the dismanteling of our intelligence going back to the 70's)...however, if there were an effort to "mislead" (lie) to the American public...then it only stands to reason that the administration would have not declassified these findings!!!...

Secondly...if true, and the Iranians halted nuclear weapons research back in 2003...lets see now...isn't that about the exact same year we went after Iraq's WMD program...and Lybia also cried "uncle" on their nuke development programs???...Does that tell you anything???...Perhaps Iran feared an invasion once we finished the job in Iraq???...Nations with ill intent rarely (if ever) back down over threats of "pacifism" and "isolationism" (see Neville Chamberlain's "peace in our time" proclamtion as perhaps the best example of that over the past 100 years)!!!...

If true..the NIE report ALSO states that within 2 years, Iran could have enough weapons grade enriched uranium to develop a nuclear weapon (which doesn;t make me sleep any better at night)...and that even without a reliable delivery system....a suitcase full of enriched uranium (supplied by Iran) could end up in the hands of Al Queda and be released in Tel Aviv, London, Paris, or wherever...in the hands of some "suicide bomber looking for 69 virgins (or whatever the Islamic fanatics are peddling to them these days)...so I wouldn't take too much comfort in this report!!!...Iran and it's leadership is still a very dangerous threat to the rest of the world!!!...Anyone who takes the attitude that all is well with Iran is making a terrible mistake...IMO!!!...

STUBASS
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Ralph Terrana (ralpht)
Moderator
Username: ralpht

Post Number: 6513
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So how would you handle Iran Stu?
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9709
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stu:

You know, there's something that's funny, yet interesting about statistics. Like smiling faces, sometimes, they lie. Not only that, but sometimes, statistics can be presented as "fact". However, sometimes when you look beyond the numbers, the reality is quite another thing entirely. Let's use Baseball & Derek Jeter as an example...

You can look at the stats of 10 different shortstops & statistically, on the surface, those 15 players may have better stats than Derek. However, what those stats WON'T show is the many times that he came through in the clutch. By way of comparison, let's look at the difference between the stats put up by an A-Rod, as compared to Jeter & ask yourself this...when the chips are down, stats notwithstanding, who has consistently risen to the top & who would you place your money on?

So, sometimes stats lie, they don't always tell the truth & often are nothing more than negotiating chips. Chips that don't necessarily promise anything more than ones potential to achieve, not a guarantee that one will necessarily come through when the money's on the line.

Stats are easily manipulated, can be twisted to support anyone case & simply stated, oftentimes, they don't quite match what our eyes see.

Here's the bottom line for ALL World Powers & the truth of this statement goes all the way back to the days when Caligula discovered new & exciting uses for lard...

"ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY"

There hasn't been a single world power that hasn't been seduced, then consumed by it & its trappings.

With history proving that to be true, what makes the U.S. any different from any of the empires that's preceded it?

Bombs, wealth & might aside, exactly what makes us the arbiter of all that is righteous & virtuous. Bombs, wealth & might aside, exactly WHOM other than ourselves, has anointed us as saviors & controllers of the entire world?

As I keep hearing about how one of the goals is to secure freedom & Democracy for Iraq, I find it quite interesting that when Haiti was exploding & refugees were trying to come here to escape tyranny, that they turned every last one of those boats around faster than Vickie Sue Robinson ever turned a beat around.

I also find it quite curious that these lovers of "freedom" didn't exactly go out to help the citizens of South Africa when they were having their asses handed to them.

Now, call me a skeptic, but I also notice that the oppressed peoples of South Africa & Haiti have 2 things in common...skin tone & lack of oil.

But, to Bush & the other freedom fighters, I'm sure that that's of no consequence at all.

Maybe no one asked for their help.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 6005
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keep up international pressure on the Mullas Ralph (I didn't mean to imply that any Mulla is actually named "Ralph")!!!...Diplomacy should always be the first option (although I have trouble believing anything they say through their public officials)!!!...I would NEVER take any option off the table!!!...We know that Iran supplies weaponry to the Shias in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan!!!...I don't find them to be either trustworthy or peace seeking (although I do understand that "some" would say the same thing about President Bush lol)!!!...

STUBASS
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 6006
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like the Vicky Sue Robinson analogy Juice...although I don't think that Derek Jeters "intangibles" factor in so well (since there are always intangibles in life, and they are impossible to quantify)!!!...As for Haiti and South Africa...I believe that the oil (our lifeblood) is much more significant factor than skin color in limiting immigration from the countries you mentioned...and immigration is not an issue as relates to Iran and Iraq...since most of the Iranians that I know here (and I know many)...came here legally!!!...I understand tha concept of "absolute power" Juice!!!...I also believe that the most powerful nation on earth carries with it certain responsibilities to help maintain world order!!!...It's in effect, a two edge sword...and if I have to choose between the USA or a conglomeration of Islamic fanatics to be responsible for world order...I'll go with the USA every time!!!...Had we feared our power during WW2...most of Europe would be singing "Springtime For Hitler" as their national anthem today!!!...

STUBASS


(Message edited by STUBASS on December 04, 2007)
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1165
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think the White House is really too uncomfortable with the NIE's latest statement about Iran. Information like that doesn't get published without their knowing it first, unless it's a leak, and this wasn't a leak.

If the intent of the White House is to have the next president be Republican, then this is one of the ways to not put off their own party's voters. "Somebody" who those in the administration listen to (any "Rovian" guess?) has probably said - back off Iran if you don't want the next election to go to the Democrats.

Bush was actually behaving a bit too calmy to being asked repeated questions on the topic.
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4900
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent observation marxthespot which is exactly what we need to start doing more of, observing and thinking more for ourselves as oppose to following blindly what we're being told. Too much of what we're being told is just not adding up and when you do press for answers you get double talk, condescending name calling and or a dismissive attitude.

(Message edited by Ms._M on December 04, 2007)
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9710
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stu:

Those clutch hits, heads up play & delivery in the clutch were very tangible & proved to be key elements in 4 years of hardware.

The way that I see it, when your military force is stretched to the max, you just don't go around rattling sabers.

Especially when you're willing to send others kids off to do battle & not your own. And just one last thought, since the original mission of this War on terrorism seems to have gotten sidetracked...

Where in this world is Bin Laden?

I thought that they said that he was to blame, yet they damn near came on themselves after capturing one of his allies, whom according to their OWN reports had nothing to do with 9/11.

Him, they could find 20 fathoms below the earth in a mouse hole. But, they can't find a 6'8" guy roaming the mountainside.

Now THAT'S amazing!

People need to think. As George Clinton said, "It Ain't Illegal Yet".

But, with whispers of microchip implantation & the like, perhaps someday it will be.
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 6008
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I doubt you'll find Osama at The Ritz Carlton Juice...and I understand that "cave dwelling" ain't all it's cracked up to be!!!...

I'd also make wager that both you and I sleep a lot better at night than OBL!!!...

STUBASS
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2806
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lots of NON answers for you, Juice....endless, boring, non-answers...
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9712
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johnny:

After all of this Bush stuff, I'm beginning to seriously start a thread named "10 Reasons Why Britney Rules Over Diana, Flo & Tammi" over in the Motown Section :-)

Stu:

I sleep easier because I believe that they've had Bin Laden & family on speed dial all along. You know, since they escorted his family out of the U.S. on 9/11.

Someone has to make sure that their freedom is still secure. Why not John Wayne, I mean Dubya.

Ain't he from Texas way?

One last thing...

I wouldn't give too much credence, much less put too much stock in all of those glowing reports about recent events in Iraq.

I seem to recall the New York dailies plastering a huge picture of Dubya chillin' with bombs in the back, radar on the top, diggin the scene in a bombing machine, ooooh, ooooh, ooooh, on pages 1, 2 & 3, with huge headlines screaming "SHOCK & AWE" & "VICTORY!"

"VICTORY"?!?!?! That was like what, 5 years ago?

Which only serves to prove that sometimes, the pundits & experts get it wrong.

CONTINUALLY!
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2808
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice....brilliant!!!LOL
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 6013
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice...these are the same pundits, experts, and media outlets who ran about 50 front page stories about 4 or 5 renegade soldiers who "humiliated" a small group of detainees at a prison called Abu Gareb, to one front page story about the fact that deaths in Iraq are at an all time low!!!... Al Queda is all but done there according to every credible source, and the Sunni population is returning to their homes in record numbers!!!...Since neither of us are actually there...I can only relate to what I see and hear on media outlets from the major networks, as well as the cable news outlets...CNN, MSNBC, FOX, etc!!!...We DID have a victory 5 years ago, so far as our initial invasion, although I believe that President Bush made a bonehead move by grandstanding on that aircraft carrier before order was essentially restored and Saddam and his sons were dealt with!!!...Obviously, in hindsight...dismantling the Republican Guard was a mistake of significant proportions, but as in any war...mistakes are made, and due to the intense media scrutiny...military mistakes are magnified 100 times from the times when the instant access to the battlefield was not as it is today!!!...There were blunders of colossal proportions during WW2, etc...which we will never know about!!!...That's why I agree that war sucks...but it is what it is!!!...

STUBASS
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1166
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, Ms. M.,

What really opened my eyes to the sad political state of our country was the 2004 election. I simply had no idea that so many people could so blindly believe in Bush and Cheney. That really pointed out that there is a deep political divide in this country.

While many have awakened and realized the truth and the harm this administration has done to our nation, there are, unfortunately, still too many either incapable or just plain unwilling to think for themselves.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2820
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stubass posted: "....I believe that President Bush made a bonehead move by grandstanding on that aircraft carrier before order was essentially restored and Saddam and his sons were dealt with!!!...Obviously, in hindsight...dismantling the Republican Guard was a mistake of significant proportions, but as in any war...mistakes are made..."

You THINK???????????
You BONEHEAD!!!
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2821
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 11:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of boneheads...here's another!!!LOL



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johno (johno)
6-Zenith
Username: johno

Post Number: 1633
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't that He-Man's arch enemy Skeletor?
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9719
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 3:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stu:

Which only raises one question for us "skeptics"...

How can folks get it right when they want to, yet screw up up so famously on other occasions?

Which only goes to prove the old cliches which state: "Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes" & "Even a broken clock is right twice a day".

Maybe the pundits got it right, but those "SHOCK AND AWE" & "VICTORY" headlines of Dubya's are right up there with "DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN!!!"

Seems like sometimes, projections can be a real bitch, huh?

One other though comes to mind...

When you are a superior GLOBAL power, boneheaded mistakes are expected to be kept to a minimum. This shit comes across more as an episode of ineptitude not seen since "The Keystone Kops" plied their trade.

When you are a superior world power fighting an out-gunned inferior opponent & bragging about your superior knowledge & strength, then you damn well better get it right & offer no weak assed excuses when things fall apart.

As for Al Qaeda's presence in Iraq, now I'm getting confused. I seem to recall that just a month or two ago, Dubya's crew was telling us how they were still a threat because they've been getting new recruits & that we must still be vigilant. After reading what you just wrote, this only begs the question...

"Is it is, or is it ain't?" or better still...

"What am I supposed to believe THIS week?"

Seems to me as though the stories change more often than a hooker would change condoms at the Water Buffalo, The Racoon Lodge & Shriners conventions combined.

"I'll never OOOH-WOOO them again!"

Uhh... Dubya...

"oooh-wooo!"
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4904
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 3:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Folks, I wouldn't underestimate the man if I were you, confusion keeps people...well uh confused, not to mention distracted...there could be a method to the madness.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2822
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 8:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ms M...I agree...I have thought for a long time that one of Bush's best character flaws is his ability to distract and confuse. I'm sure he's honed those tools over years and years of making messes in his life from his drug and alcohol addictions and just real poor judgement...just to keep family and friends and the media off his lying ass.

But, he really isn't good at it...he's so obvious. I guess that's the purpose Rove served.
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1177
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johnny,

Maybe that makes Bush not that much more than a puppet of Rove and Cheney. All of that impairment of judgement that is caused by addiction is probably used by Rove and Cheney to easily "influence" Bush.

How does that saying go?...."a "Bush" in the hand is worth two terms of screwing up America."

(Message edited by marxthespot on December 05, 2007)
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2824
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So right, Marx....and, of course, leave it to Bush...today, rather than lightening up...he plays his little "my penis is bigger than YOUR penis" with Iran yet and STILL. That spoiled little boy needs to get over his need to outdo his daddy...because, LORD KNOWS...he did THAT early on....and not in a GOOD way! What a BONEHEAD!!! That makes 3!!! LOL
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4908
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Midnight Johnny I agree, but he's a little too good at it if you know what I mean...he's too obvious.

If this thread serves no other purpose I hope it gets people to start thinking and questioning things more. To pay attention to what's going on around them outside of their own little world. That's not an easy thing to do when you're struggling day to day to make ends meet and if incidents are allegedly being engineered, it's even more difficult not to become distracted. But we ALL need to pay attention to what's going on, look a little deeper and listen a little harder. If we don't, as Juice once said, we are all screwed without any lubrication whatsoever.....and we will have no one to blame but ourselves.

(Message edited by Ms._M on December 05, 2007)

(Message edited by Ms._M on December 05, 2007)
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2825
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Totally agree, Ms M....
Here is a fresh look, from the Associated Press today, at George's LATEST hot headed scheme. I
think he is on an endless "Dry-Drunk".
Read that title....who the hell does he think he is...Sgt. Joe FRIDAY???LOL
------------------------------ -----------
Bush calls on Iran to 'come clean'
_____________

By BEN FELLER, Associated Press Writer
22 minutes ago



OMAHA, Neb. - President Bush, trying to keep pressure on Iran, called on Tehran Wednesday to "come clean" about the scope of its nuclear activities or else face diplomatic isolation.

Two days after a new intelligence report said that Iran had halted its nuclear weapons program four years ago, Bush demanded that Tehran detail its previous program to develop nuclear weapons "which the Iranian regime has yet to acknowledge."

"The Iranians have a strategic choice to make," he said. "They can come clean with the international community about the scope of their nuclear activities, and fully accept the long-standing offer to suspend their enrichment program and come to the table and negotiate, or they can continue on a path of isolation."

The administration is worried that the new National Intelligence Estimate — representing a consensus of all U.S. spy agencies — weakens its leverage over Iran and its ability to build global pressure on Tehran to stop its uranium enrichment program.

Bush, arriving here on a campaign fundraising trip, said he had consulted with members of his national security team, who gave him a report about what Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley have learned in talks during the past several days with their counterparts in Britain, Germany, France and Russia.

"These countries understand that the Iranian nuclear issue is a problem, and continues to be a problem and must be addressed," Bush said.

Backing the U.S. intelligence community, Bush said he appreciated its work in helping people to understand past and present activities in Iran and helping the administration develop a sound policy.

"It is clear from the latest NIE that the Iranian government has more to explain about its nuclear intentions and past actions," Bush said.

His statement Wednesday came a day after a news conference called in part to react to the new information on Iran's nuclear activities. Bush's public remarks, coupled with frenzied contacts with world leaders by Bush, Rice and Hadley, show a White House trying to keep the world on board with its hard line against Tehran — an uphill effort now, according to most analysts.

Also Wednesday, the White House said the United States will continue "actively pushing" for a third, tougher round of United Nations sanctions against Iran. Deputy press secretary Tony Fratto said Iran continues to hide information, remains in violation of two U.N. Security Council resolutions, tests ballistic missiles and is enriching uranium.

"Anyone who thinks that the threat from Iran has receded or diminished is naive and is not paying attention to the facts," Fratto told reporters flying aboard Air Force One with Bush en route to Nebraska.

Fratto disputed Iran's claim that the intelligence estimate was a vindication for Tehran. "I think that's absolutely absurd, and Iran should take no comfort or vindication from the NIE," he said.

He rejected calls, since the new report, for the administration to enter into unconditional talks with Iran, something the White House has said it would only do once Tehran stops enriching uranium.

Tehran says its nuclear program is only for civilian energy purposes. It says it is allowed to enrich uranium for that reason.

Rice, traveling in Africa Wednesday, questioned the openness of the Iranian government after President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said the new U.S. intelligence review amounted to "a final shot" against Tehran's critics.

Rice declined to respond to Ahmadinejad's remark, but told reporters in the Ethiopian capital of Addis Ababa that the public release of the NIE showed the administration was committed to transparent democracy, while Iran was not.

"I am not going to comment on that comment except to say that what the National Intelligence Estimate shows, and the transparency with which the administration released it, is what it means to live in a democracy and I hope one day that the people of Iran will live in a democracy too," she said.

Rice said that the latest U.S. intelligence estimate did not mean that Washington no longer considered Tehran a threat and urged the international community not to back down at the U.N. Security Council on pressuring Iran to halt its activities that could produce the ingredients for an atomic weapon.

"It is the very strong view of the administration that the Iranian regime remains a problematic and dangerous regime and that the international community must continue to unite around the Security Council resolutions that have passed," she said.

"Iran needs to stop enrichment and reprocessing activities because those enriching and reprocessing activities permit, if they are perfected, a state to acquire fissile material for a nuclear weapon," Rice said.
-----------------------
These people are clearly not to be trusted. They have shown that they will do anything to promote their agenda...dismantle the Constitution, illegally torture people.....lie, cheat, steal, murder...and there is no ALLEGED about it. It has happened...and it IS happening. And it is done with BRAZEN APLOMB...as you said, Ms. M.....as if NO ONE is watching.
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4910
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No argument here Midnight Johnny, I only hope MORE people will start watching...you dig what I'm saying?
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9721
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ms M:

Why thanks for remembering.

Folks, let's consider one more thing that I don't believe has been raised here as of yet...

In the last elections, the Republicans have had their heads handed to them. While Bush blames the Democrats for doing nothing, he's vetoed every proposal that they've placed before him.

Considering that their only TRUE platform seems to be the war on terrorism, as opposed to any domestic issues, is it remotely possible that as they're gearing up for next year's election, that this wratcheting up of rhetoric is nothing more than a smoke screen for Bush & the Republicans?

After all, the war on terrorism seems to be their sole strong point.

At least it is in THEIR minds.

Just a thought!
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1178
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't it interesting how both Bush and Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad reacted to the NIE's finding that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003?

Ahmadinejad said that proves a big victory for Iran over the US, which I don't get at all. I don't see that the logic of that statement. Then Bush says that the NIE's report validates his assertions that Iran is still an imminent threat that could lead to WWIII due to their nuclear weapons program. You know, the one that stopped in 2003.

These two guys have more in common than one would think. They both regularly attempt to do the most flagrant spinning of facts into out-and-out lies.




........Kindred "Souls".......Kindred Asses..........
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2827
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I dig, ma'am, I dig. I just think people are tired and weary of the whole Bush thing...and don't even consider beyond that the ramifications
of this treachery. They don't think it is in their hands...and the way the Bush regime has manipulated it, it seems truely not. We just have to make sure that Chris Matthews of "Hardball" and Keith Olberman of "Countdown", both on MSNBC, are supported in their work to bring honesty to the crap that's going on.
Please don't forget to watch those news/interview shows. On a daily basis, they bring up the new ways that the Bush administration attempts to disintegrate America and bring the facts to light.
It's a relief to no someone is watching. It's just sad that the information they impart isn't brought further.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2828
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

RIGHT ON...MARX!!!
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4915
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Midnight Johnny I agree but I would have to also add people should look at as much info as they can from numerous sources from all sides..not just one or two...it's the only way to make an honest and intelligent decision. It means a little more time and work but personally, my civil liberties are worth the extra time and work. I'm sure many of you guys feel the same.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9725
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Personally, I'm just tired of the bullshit, the blinders that too many people wear & the nonsensical arrogant excuses that too many people make for such ineptitude.

Too many people don't give a damn until it's their turn.

Then they want to get mad.

So many people are content with things until the genie escapes from the bottle. Then & only then do they consider the value of making sure that the cork was in the bottle in the first damn place.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9728
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's some more interesting news...

http://www.newsweek.com/id/737 61?GT1=10645
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2829
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice....thanks for posting this very important article. I think the more we post these kinds of facts and information, it will help to minimize the spin, the distortion and the lies that some profess to be the truth. I truly appreciate your posting this!!
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9729
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johnny:

Thank you, anytime at all. The info that you, Marx, Ms M & Dollar are bringing to light is very important & it would be nice if more people began to take heed of what's really going on.

You know, I really look forward to a day when we can put this kind of nosnsense behind us & have people who want to represent & serve ALL of us, rather that a few of the elect.

I guess that would make me a cock-eyed optimist, but there has got to be a better way for all of us & I believe that we're getting cheated big time.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2832
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well...the power is with the people. We just have to remind them that voting for someone because you can see yourself having a BEER with him is not always the best way to judge a potential president....
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johno (johno)
6-Zenith
Username: johno

Post Number: 1640
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 6:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wouldn't vote for someone just because I could see myself having a beer with them.
Having a bar-b-que might be a different matter though.

Hillary Clinton didn't get those thunder thighs from tofu. She looks like she could pack away a plate of ribs or two.

Fred Thompson I'm sure knows his way around a grill and a side of beef.

Mitt Romney has probably never ate anything greasy in his life. The only grease he comes in contact with his for his hair.

John Edwards looks like he has some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder. If he got some sauce on his tie he's probably freak out.

Rudy Giuliani know his way around a plate of pasta but he don't know bar-b-que.

Mike Huckabee dropped 100 pounds so he once knew bar-b-que but he's a quitter.
Barack Obama is too skinny.

Dennis Kucinich is too weird to be a bar-b-que man.

John McCain I'm sure knows his way around a grill.

Bill Richardson I wouldn't trust. He probably uses tin foil on his grill.

George Bush may have passed himself off as a Texas bar-b-que man but you know that Laura would never let him near open flames and sharp objects.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2833
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Bush: Pathological liar or idiot-in-chief?"

(he's TWO mints in ONE! I think it may be worthwhile to hear Keith Olberman's SPECIAL COMMENT from tonight about this!!!)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22 134108/
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stubass (stubass)
6-Zenith
Username: stubass

Post Number: 6033
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting article Juice...however despite all the "high fiveing" going on in some circles over some peoples conclusions of this report...perhaps a few things should be considered!!!...

Just today, both the European Union and NATO issued statements saying that there is no reason to change their policy on Iran based on the NIE report, a position shared by our own administration!!!...

The NIE report states that Iran "halted" it's nuclear weapons program in 2003...not that they "dismantled" it...which leads one to wonder if the Mullas in Iran just woke up one morning and said..."this is wrong...we're gonna stop"???...More likely, is the fact that we had just invaded Iraq and toppled Saddam Hussein, who failed to cooperate with international weapons inspectors, and Iran fearing a "smoking gun" should such weapons programs be discovered in their country made the wise decision to mothball their nuclear ambitions for the time being!!!...Also, Libya's Col Khadaffi, admittedly also not wanting to risk invasion, dismantled his own nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs!!!...Combine that with the fact that the head of Pakistans nuclear program...a guy named Khan, who was at that time "outed" for providing sensitive nuclear secrets to both North Korea and Iran could start "dropping dimes" on Irans nuclear weapons development progress...Iran wisely decided to delay their nuclear program for another day!!!...

The fact that, as the report states, Irans continued development of uranium enrichment which could lead to a deliverable nuclear weapon in as little as two years...more likely four or five years, provides me little comfort!!!...Why should the international community fear Irans developement of nuclear weapons???...For one...Iran is widely known to be funding and supplying weapons to both insurgents in Iraq and terrorists throughout The Middle East!!!...Iran has vowed the destruction of Israel, and todays "leaders" in Iran are the same folks who as "students" brought us the "Iranian Hostage Crisis" (for those who remember)!!!...

The fact that Bush sent the report back for further review for six months or so, only points out to me the fact that the Administration wanted to assure the American public that the types of miscalculations made in previous intelligence estimates (i.e.Iraq) would not be repeated!!!...That sounds pretty responsible to me!!!...

I'm sure that the Iranian regime hopes that the International community goes to sleep on it's committment to prevent Iran from becoming a Nuclear power, based on this latest NIE report!!!...Thankfully, neither the EU, NATO, nor any other responsible party is interpreting this report as an excuse to give Iran free reign in any attempt to further enrich uranium in an effort to build and potentially explode any nuclear weapons!!!...

Mature/Adult responses only please!!!...

STUBASS
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Ms. M (ms_m)
6-Zenith
Username: ms_m

Post Number: 4924
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Maturity begins when we're content to feel we're right about something without feeling the necessity to prove someone else wrong."
- Sydney J. Harris, journalist, author, 1917-1986
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1192
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In Bush's own press conference earlier this week he said that he only learned of the NIE report's details on Wednesday of last week. Dana Perrino (WH Press Secretary) agreed with that until it was pointed out to her in her press conference today that on Monday of last week (two days before Bush said he knew), President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority said he knew of the details of the NIE from his meeting with Bush.

That seems to mean two things:

(A) Bush lied at his press conference this week about when he knew about the NIE's details.

(B) Bush has known about the 2003 halting of Iran's nuclear weapons program for a lot longer that he said. All the time he knew these facts and was irresponsibly using expressions like "nuclear holocaust" and "World War III" to generate fear to build a case for attacking Iran.

What Bush may have managed to do by lying and being caught is to further degrade our credibility to the point that we may now lose most of the support from European nations in backing sanctions against Iran.

And that all comes on top of, once again, Bush lying to the entire nation.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 9732
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stu

To be honest, I would say the very fact that Bush wrongfully stormed into Iraq, gives ANY country the right to have the same damn bombs & missiles that we have.

Might makes right & let's be honest, why would Bush be so quick as to take on an Iraq, with a country like North Korea talking BIG smack, telling Bush, "Yeah I got bombs & what are you gonna do about it? And if you come over here, I'll shoot these lovely missiles at you."

Why wasn't he as quick as to storm into a country which DOES have bombs & missiles, which are not in the production stage, but were very much completed?

With Bush running through Iraq, the only signal that was sent out to every despot in the world is this...

"Yo, we need the same shit that they've got".

It only drives home the reality that might makes right. And when you factor in all of the half-truths, deceit & lies surrounding the Iraq invasion, as well as the Iran deal, one has to question our right to tell anyone what to do.

People can say what they want to, but there's nothing noble about what's going on in Iraq. Save them for freedom? Sure! There one thing that's been consistent about this country & their "help". It always costs someone something.

They helped Puerto Rico so well, that most of P.R. seems to belong to American Businessmen.

(Message edited by juicefree20 on December 07, 2007)
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2835
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice...you would have to be a totally dense, self absorbed, narcissistic, DEAD AIR HEAD to
not see that all you are saying is true. But leave it to some who are going to post after you, to bring up 85 OTHER issues, points, facts, non-facts and a hodge podge of gobbledy gook to distract, provoke and otherwise try to dilute the very clear facts that have been presented, and MORE are presented every day......destroyed tapes, lying about the NIE, et al, ad nauseum.
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1201
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Finally some good news...

The Dept. of Justice & the CIA will investigate the 2005 destruction of videotapes where CIA agents tortured (through waterboarding) suspected terrorists.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 71208/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/cia_vi deotapes_76
----------------------

Some bad news.....

Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee wanted, in 1992, to "isolate" AIDS patients from the general public.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 71208/ap_on_el_pr/huckabee_aid s_5

Not to mention Huckabee's role in the release of a known rapist in Arkansas who then went on to kill and rape another victim.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ 2007/12/04/documents-expose-hu ckabee_n_75362.html


Huckabee seems like another slimeball in evangelical disguise.
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 1205
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And then there is Rudy Giuliani.......another slimeball running for president, but at least he is in slimeball clothing:





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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2844
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marx....I LOVE it....the WHOLE Giuliani campaign and experience in 6 panels!!! PRICELESS!
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2863
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lawmakers vote to hold Bush aides in contempt By Thomas Ferraro
Thu Dec 13, 5:09 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Senate Judiciary Committee voted on Thursday to hold two men who have been top aides to President George W. Bush in contempt for refusing to comply with subpoenas in its probe of the firing of federal prosecutors.

ADVERTISEMENT

On a largely party-line vote, the Democratic-led panel sent contempt of Congress citations against White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten and former Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove to the full Senate for consideration.

"This is not a step I have wanted to take," said Chairman Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat. He accused the White House of "stonewalling" and refusing to reach an acceptable compromise on providing documents and testimony.

In a battle dating back to shortly after Democrats took control of Congress in January, Bush has claimed executive privilege to protect aides from complying with subpoenas demanding documents and testimony in a congressional probe into the firing last year of nine federal prosecutors.

Setting the stage for a possible lengthy court fight, the committee rejected the privilege claim as unfounded.

At the White House, press secretary Dana Perino said, "The Democrats should know the futility of trying to press ahead with a criminal case."

In July, the House of Representatives Judiciary Committee also approved along party lines contempt citations against Bolten and former White House counsel Harriet Miers.

It was unclear when the full House or Senate would vote on the citations. If approved, they would be sent to the U.S. Justice Department for prosecution.

Attorney General Michael Mukasey said during his confirmation hearing he did not believe the department could prosecute since it had deemed Bush's privilege claim as valid.

If the case does end up in the courts, it could takes years to conclude, long after Bush's term ends in January 2009.

Bush nominated Mukasey as attorney general after Alberto Gonzales, Bush's former White House counsel, resigned under pressure from lawmakers who questioned his competency and honesty.

Critics charged Gonzales had politicized the Justice Department and fired prosecutors because they were not seen as sufficiently loyal to the administration.

The White House has contended the dismissals were improperly handled, but did not involve any wrongdoing.
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Midnite Johnny (jpatpt)
6-Zenith
Username: jpatpt

Post Number: 2879
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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