Soulful Detroit Archives - July 2007 ::: Record Collectors ::: UK Tamla Motown - Demo copies Previous Next

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Terry Wilson (terrybrighton)
5-Doyen
Username: terrybrighton

Post Number: 177
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 80.3.64.11
Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 6:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all - an appeal for some help with research I am doing - if there is anyone out there with demo copies of the UK Tamla Motown releases between 1965 and 1976.

I am trying to pin down the scheduled release dates of all the singles, which are stated on the demo copy labels. I have trawled the net for photos and have located about a quarter of them.

If anyone has a moment to post TMG number and date, as stated on their copies, I would be most grateful. 1968 to 1971 is the leanest period for my data so I would be especially grateful for any dates from those years.

Thanks all.
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roger (roger)
6-Zenith
Username: roger

Post Number: 1025
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.35.87.17
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 6:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terry ..

I only have a handful of TMG demos .. all from the end of this period ..

Dates are as follows ..

TMG 929 - "Shoe Shoe Shine" - DYNAMIC SUPERIORS - 17th Jan 1975.

TMG 936 - "Take Me Clear From Here" - DAVID RUFFIN - 24th Jan 1975.

TMG 1033 - "Me And My Life" - G.C. CAMERON - 16th July 1976.

TMG 1037 - "Darling Baby" - ROSE BANKS - 20th August 1976.

TMG 1038 - "Down To Love Town" - ORIGINALS - 17th September 1976.

Hope this helps you ..

Roger
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LarsC (the_norwegian)
4-Laureate
Username: the_norwegian

Post Number: 132
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 80.203.45.248
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 11:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You've probably seen these but I'll post them anyway (500-series):
http://capitolsoulclub.homeste ad.com/TMG500s.html
(Original thread (free registration required):
http://www.raresoulforum.co.uk /index.php?act=ST&f=30&t=7639& s=125bf3d1014a5d1d8da6b72f1fa2 ab4a )
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AlanH (alanh)
1-Arriviste
Username: alanh

Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 82.43.112.197
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 1:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Terry

You've set yourself a task

Sharon Davis' book 'Motown The History' (published in 1988 by Guinness) has a discography of all Motown releases, both UK and US. It lists the month/year of release of each record, but not the actual day. It might be worth trying to get hold of the book, although how easy it'll be I don't know!

I can give you a mere three;

TMG 595 - He Was Really Saying Something - Velvelettes 17/2/67

TMG 807 - Reach Out I'll Be There - San Remo Strings 24/3/72

TMG 822 - God Bless Whoever Sent You - Originals 30/6/72

If I come across anymore, I'll let you know

Alan
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AlanH (alanh)
1-Arriviste
Username: alanh

Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 82.43.112.197
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 2:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

.......and

TMG 593 - I've Passed This Way Before - Jimmy Ruffin 3/2/67

TMG 724 - I Want You Back - Jackson 5 16/1/70

I hope you'll let us know when you've completed your research
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Terry Wilson (terrybrighton)
5-Doyen
Username: terrybrighton

Post Number: 181
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 80.3.64.11
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 3:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks guys - that's a great start.

I have a copy of Sharon's book - also Don Waller's "Motown Story". Both have the month/ year, but in one or two cases the months disagree with the actual demo copies, which is inetesting. I think the demos carry the intended rather than actual date.

I will keep the forum posted on how it goes.

Please let me know of any more. Many thanks to everyone.
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Lars Nilsson (lg_nilsson)
3-Pundit
Username: lg_nilsson

Post Number: 47
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 83.226.8.42
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 6:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Terry,

I do not have that many UK Tamla-Motown 45's left as I have consentrated to find the US releases, but I found two demos.

TMG597.gif TMG619.gif

Hope that helps.

Lars
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Johnny R (johnny_r)
2-Debutant
Username: johnny_r

Post Number: 14
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 80.47.243.175
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 3:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've got a few somewhere:
Isley Brothers ''I Guess I'll Always Love You'' TMG 572 (19.8.66)
Isley Brothers ''Got to Have you back'' TMG 606 (12.5.67)
The Velvelettes ''Needle In A Haystack'' TMG 806 (10.3.72)
San Remo Strings ''Reach Out I'll be There'' TMG 807 (24.3.72)
Blinky & Edwin Starr ''Oh How Happy'' TMG 720 (2.1.70)
Edwin Starr ''Agent Double O Soul'' TMG 790 (15.10.71)
Martha Reeves ''No One There'' TMG 843 (9.2.73)
etc etc..
you need someone with the complete set.
A guy called Gordon Frewin had the lot in his office at the old UK Jobete office in Curzon Street London when I was there in the late 1980's.(Including Stateside etc)There was a gold disc for the Supremes ''Baby Love'' chucked on the floor and they seemed more into Rick James latest disaster than old stuff.
It would be funny if the dates you wish were on a Sunday or xmas day!
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Johnny R (johnny_r)
2-Debutant
Username: johnny_r

Post Number: 15
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 80.47.55.20
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 4:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't forget theres the 12"disco type releases like Tata Vega etc. This practice seems to have continued into the 80's as the Bonnie Pointer ''When I'm Gone'' scan shows. I'm not sure if they did this on Rare Earth UK but I have Frankie Valli on a Mowest promo and they use a sticker saying ''Factory Sample Not For Sale''When I'm Gone
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Terry Wilson (terrybrighton)
5-Doyen
Username: terrybrighton

Post Number: 192
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 80.3.64.11
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 7:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for your help everyone. As someone mentioned above, it's quite a task to take on but I've been at it just a month and got nearly half of the black label Tamla Motown singles on record now. It's an interesting project and is throwing up the odd surprise, such as the occasional date which disagrees with the previously published listings and one or two which seem to have more than one date scheduled.

I have determined that all bar one so far have release dates which are Fridays, excepting where the bank holiday Good Friday occurs, and the release is moved forward to the Thursday. I initially thought this was because Friday was pay-day for record buyers, but now I'm thinking that the charts were published on Thursdays, so a Friday release would get a whole 6 days of sales counted up before the charts were published. Anyway, it's clearly an EMI-UK policy.

Thanks again for the help. If anoyone has any more, keep 'em coming!

One particular point of interest: The red/ white demos were discontinued in favour of the green ones at some point between TMG 575 (Red and White) and TMG 590 (Green) - but I have yet to pin down exactly when the change was made. Can anyone provide the label type for any of the intevening numbers??
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roger (roger)
6-Zenith
Username: roger

Post Number: 1036
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.35.87.17
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 5:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terry ...

I think it was standard for U.K. records to be released on a Friday throughout the mid/late 60's and well into the 70's.

From what I recall of the 1969/1972 period ( when such things were of great interest to me) Radio Luxembourg and Radio One would commence their new playlist on the Monday ( which would include some "about to be released" records that would get in the shops on the following Friday ). That would give (so the record companies thought) an initial boost in sales as the record buyers would be keen to buy the records when they visited the shops over the weekend.

Then, as you have suggested, they might sell well enough to appear in the charts the following week.

Incidentally, all the Demo's I have ( 1975/6 period ) have black labels, identical to the standard release but with the release date and the "Demonstration Record not for sale" wording, so there would have been a switch from green to black at some stage.

Roger
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Terry Wilson (terrybrighton)
5-Doyen
Username: terrybrighton

Post Number: 194
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 80.3.64.11
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 9:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's interesting Roger. I gathered the Friday release policy was standard - I checked The Beatles releases too, since the dates for these are widely documented, and yes they also conform to Fridays. I wasn't sure why, but from what you say it was probably a combination of all the factors mentioned including weekend shopping. Record companies these days are only too well aware that condensing sales into one week gives a higher placing and more free publicity as a result.

The change from green 'A' labels to black label demos I have pinned down, although it's a little complicated. The last TMG number with the green label was TMG 868 (Marvin Gaye: Let's Get It On). TMG 869 had the black label (Stevie Wonder: Higher Ground), released 28.9.73.

However it's not quite that simple: TMG 867, was delayed and when it eventually emerged it also had the black label despite being numbered prior to 'Let's Get It On'. (It was Martin & Finley's cancelled release which only exists as a demo.) So the first two black labels appeared at the same time, TMG 867 and 869, although TMG 868 was green!

Demo label details
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John Lester (theboyfromxtown)
6-Zenith
Username: theboyfromxtown

Post Number: 1007
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.44.166.83
Posted on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 7:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and what a fascinating piece of trivia that was. Thank you Terry......I really loved that explanation.

Gordon Frewin told me that TMG867 was to commence the black label DJ copies.

What were the dates on TMG 868 and 869 and 867...I can't read them!!!

Sorry Terry.....my magnifying glass is not strong enough!
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Terry Wilson (terrybrighton)
5-Doyen
Username: terrybrighton

Post Number: 195
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 80.3.64.11
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 9:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi.

We have:

866 (Law of the Land): 17.8.73
867 (It's Another Sunday): 28.9.73 (Not released)
868 (Let's Get It On): 7.9.73
869 (Higher Ground): 28.9.73

So these successive catalogue numbers go green - black - green - black!

What I need to know now was the change over from White/ Red to Green. All I know so far is

TMG 575 (You Can't Hurry Love): 2.9.66 = White/ Red
TMG 590 (It Takes Two): 13.1.67 = Green

But I have nothing in between these as yet...
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Keith Rylatt (keith_rylatt)
4-Laureate
Username: keith_rylatt

Post Number: 134
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 84.65.206.143
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 1:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Terry
99% of my Motown stuff is on US labels but I can offer you a couple -
TMG 506 Earl Van Dyke - All For You / Too Many Fish....18 March 1965 (rubber stamped)
TMG 646 Edwin Starr - I Am The Man For You Baby / My Weakness Is You 16 / 2 / 68

On a lighter note - I used to have a unplayed copy of Barbara McNair on a red & white demo but sold it in the late 70s to a collector in Birmingham. I had the track on the UK Motown Memories LP and to be honest wasn't really that attached to it, I got a good price at the time, 42. Well, when my dear friend John Lester was an active collector, he also had one and when I went around there one time he showed me a polo shirt with a badge on. The badge is a copy of the McNair demo and underneath is states "OWNERS CLUB". I guess it is the rarest of the UK 45s??

On the topic of rarities, a guy in Strood, Kent used to work in Decca's pressing plant but also had (rather like Ron Murphy) a working knowledge of the other UK pressers and he told me one day that (apart from the Luther King speech) `The Artistry of Brenda Holloway` on Tamla Motown was the LP pressed in the least number. If I recall he stated 200 mono & 200 stereo.

Can I just add something about John Lester, known to all of you regular SFDers who know this already. John is one of the kindest, most thoughtful people I have ever come across. The world of record collecting can unfortunately throw up a few selfish people, especially when it comes to obtaining rare 45s but I can tell you that in his time John has shared many a rare record & its source with his fellow collectors. Your a gentleman John.
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Terry Wilson (terrybrighton)
5-Doyen
Username: terrybrighton

Post Number: 196
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 80.3.64.11
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 1:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Keith. I'm not sure what to make of the rubber stamped ones. TMG 501 to TMG 522 appear not to have printed dates and I've come across one or two of these with rubber stamps. The key question is, does this represent planned release date put on there by EMI, or is it the date they were received by whoever they were sent to.

I have a picture of TMG 504 with 19 March - which is a Friday; but your TMG 506 has 18th, which is a Thursday. I can't believe that Tamla Motown planned to release the singles on different but consecutive days, so a bit of a mystery there.

I don't know if the prices on these demos have ever been listed, but I think some of them are worth a small fortune today! I wish I had more than the couple I've managed to pick up!
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John Lester (theboyfromxtown)
6-Zenith
Username: theboyfromxtown

Post Number: 1010
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.44.166.83
Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 7:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keith...you make me blush!

Terry....TMG 579 was the first green and white that I have seen.

My copies of those DJ copies came from Ready Steady Go. The source was the guy who looked after the records played on the show. That means that TMG544 was played on the show.

I also got a pile of UK London demo's all around the 10070 mark but the Darrell Banks wasn't included. Oh well, you can't win them all!
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FrankM (frankm)
4-Laureate
Username: frankm

Post Number: 153
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 86.142.196.18
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 2:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a number of UK Demos from other companies and they are rubber stamped by the company rather than the shop.

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