Soulful DetroitArchives - July 2007 � Did Prince Steal from Rick James Previous Next

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abfan (abfan)
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Username: abfan

Post Number: 902
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 71.180.130.208
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 1:34 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

THE SKY VILLA BOUTIQUE PRESENTS: "SCANDAL SHEET"

Bitter Rivals:



In the 80's, Rick James asked Prince to open up the "Fire Up Tour." James states in his book, "The Confessions Of Rick James, Memoirs Of A Super Freak," that he had yet to meet Prince. The only thing he had heard about him was that he was shy. James had hoped this was false because if he was shy, he had no business being out on the road with him.

James said he walked through the backstage entrance, Prince was sitting on his group's drums playing some bullshit beat. James sat down and began playing some serious stuff. He said Prince looked over at him and got his little ass up and walked away.

James adds, "Prince was just starting out and the first time I saw Prince and his band open for me, I felt sorry for him. Here's this little dude wearing high heels, standing there in a trench coat. Then at the end of the set, he'd take off his trench coat and he'd be wearing little girl's bloomers. The guys in the audience booed him to death."

The following weeks of the tour weren't very different from the opening date. Whenever I was on stage I'd see Prince on the side of the stage just staring and watching everything I did, like a kid in school.

One day I walked into the auditorium, getting ready to go on and I heard the crowd chanting loudly. I went to check it out. Here's Prince doing my chants. Not only was he stalking the stage like me, he was doing my trademark funk sign, flipping the microphone and everything. The boy had stolen my whole show. I was pissed and so was my band. This went on night after night, every show I'd see more of my routine. It got to the point I couldn't do the stuff I had always done because Prince was doing it before I came on. It started to look like I was copying him.

Everyone knew what was happening, his management, my management. The atmosphere backstage was not improved by the fact that Prince's band members were not on good terms with my band and my guys wanted to kick their asses. Prince's musicians would stick their noses in the air and not even acknowledge the Stone City Band, even if they were all standing together, waiting for the elevator. Prince's group was a bunch of egotistical assholes who never even played on a record. The kid did it all, they were just hired players.

One day, things blew up and management called a meeting. I told Prince's manager, that if Prince did any more of my show he was off the tour. Finally, we all met in Prince's room, Prince, me and our bands. Prince's band was afraid, very afraid. Prince sat on the bed and hardly said a word. He acted like a little bitch while his band and mine patched up our differences.

Soon after this episode. There was a birthday party for me. Prince came, he was sitting at a table with some people not drinking. I walked up to him, grabbed him by the back of the hair and poured cognac down his throat. He spit it out like a little bitch and I laughed and walked away. I loved fukking with him like that.

I always felt our competition was healthy, although I was jealous when he started getting big, more than jealous, I was pissed, because here was this little short ego'd out fukker who I had a feeling didn't like people of his own race and wanted to be white and taller. While on the road, I never saw Prince hang out with black men or black women. In fact, his demeanor was like that of a short uppity white boy.

A few years later when James was performing at the Universal Amphitheater. The second night of the show, Rod Stewart and his wife Alana came to the show. James decided to have them sit in front row seats that belonged to Prince.

From the stage, I could see Prince's attempt to throw Rod and Alana out of the seats. Alana told Prince to kiss her ass. Then, during a performance with the Mary Jane Girls, James saw Prince being carried around the venue in his bodyguard's arms just to get attention.

After the show, when Prince saw Rick and Rod backstage, he jumped over the stairs and fled. Allegedly, Rod told Rick, "I hate that little prikk." Rick was pissed and called Prince all kinds of little bitches. Rick said, "Had Prince not jumped over the stairs and ran, I swear I would have kicked his ass."

James heard later that Prince went to see Michael Jackson's concert and tried to disrupt it. When Michael allegedly found out that Prince was in the house, he came out badder than ever and Prince left the show before it was over.

Rick adds, "I always thought of Prince as a great player and a very innovative person but as far as himself as a person, he could use a good ghetto ass kicking."
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Kdubya (paladin)
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Username: paladin

Post Number: 2698
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 67.176.220.255
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 1:43 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great reading.....dam I miss Rick......
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Dr Groove (dr_groove)
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Username: dr_groove

Post Number: 86
Registered: 9-2006
Posted From: 71.227.8.93
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 1:44 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No..... Prince Stole from Sly Stone and Little Richard. Then swiped from Cab Calloway to create Morris Day and The Time. Turned Out Sheena Easton and let her ruin her own career. Then went underground for a while. Either way ...You Gotta Love The Man. He's extremely talented. He always come up with a vibe that is pure simple... leaving me to say "Why Didn't I Think Of That..! He's A Bad Mo Fo..!
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Dr Groove (dr_groove)
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Username: dr_groove

Post Number: 87
Registered: 9-2006
Posted From: 71.227.8.93
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 1:48 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually... He probably copped some of Ricks thing just like he may have from many artist. One thing for sure is ..Prince is very much in tune and respectful of musical vibes that move him and that's how he comes up with his own thing.
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Motown_Fan (motown_fan)
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Post Number: 1289
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Posted From: 75.66.38.199
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 1:55 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rick James & Price both stole from me.

I'm RICK JAMES, Bitch.

Seriously, I've heard stories about ome kind of rivalry between Rick James & Prince.
Rick supposedly accused Prince of stealing the concept for Vanity 6 from his creation of the Mary Jane Girls.

Something happened. But Rick had little beefs going with everyone.

(Message edited by motown_fan on June 25, 2007)
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SoulLover79 (soullover79)
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Username: soullover79

Post Number: 236
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 208.208.194.10
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 2:04 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL, if nothing else, I sure to miss Rick James' candor ...
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cOzmic (cozmic)
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Username: cozmic

Post Number: 639
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 83.118.176.167
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 3:15 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

JUST A WARNING for people who intend to buy Rick's autobiography...
After some forum-members of Rick James his site received or bought their copy , they discovered that the publishing-company has printed a MAJOR amount of type-errors ( wrong-spelled names , repeating sentences , etc ... ) while they had TWO hired & payed editors working on it , and who still left too much defaults in the book.

Even stranger is that the publishing-company puts the blame on others than themselves , and haven't been excactly service-friendly with responding to people who complained about this matter.
It's a disgrace to Rick , his family , friends and fans.
People who might be not so much into Rick's music and are gonna read it , might get a total wrong picture of Mister James Ambrose Johnson.
A new version is currently to be edited , and will be released at a later date.


(Message edited by cOzmic on June 25, 2007)
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Funkyone D.J. Dollar Bil (funkyone)
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Username: funkyone

Post Number: 289
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 209.148.182.206
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 3:29 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two great artists with two great(at the time) egos.
I imagine Prince would tell a different version of events and had the advantage of not having his brain clouded by drugs.

(Message edited by funkyone on June 25, 2007)
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cOzmic (cozmic)
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Username: cozmic

Post Number: 641
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 83.118.176.167
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 3:47 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*

(Message edited by cOzmic on June 25, 2007)
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cOzmic (cozmic)
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Username: cozmic

Post Number: 642
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 83.118.176.167
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 3:50 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On the Road with Rick James

or

The True Adventures of the Too Much Fun Club

Story #36 Pre-Purple Prince Part Two "Look out...Prince has a knife!"

Call me homophobic but that first night when Prince came over to the area I was working in and shook his little hot pants put me closer to another mans genital area than I ever hoped to be. I threw my wire cutters down and scampered off the stage as fast as I could scurry. Some of the crew guy's who had seen what happened were cracking up but I was not laughing.
I went to the production office and found both the production manager and Victor Reed the stage manager there. I told them I was not going anywhere near the stage as long as "he" was out there. I felt like I needed a long hot shower with lots and lots of soap. The production manager said that we were running late and that set change was going to be as fast as possible and he really needed me to finish up everything I could right now.
I said "You want me to go out there while he is out there?"
Victor said "Yes I do."
Up until now I had been noshing but cooperative and helpful. They had never seen this side of my personality before. I said "Try and make me," and stood my ground. I could tell by the look on their faces that this was probably the last thing in the world they needed to deal with right then but that was their problem. Victor said that he was certain I was exaggerating and things certainly could not be that bad. I asked him if he even knew what the guy was wearing and he admitted he did not.
When I described the hot pants and little boots I finally got his complete and undivided attention. He looked at me and simply said "Bullshit."
"No" I protested "But if you don't want to take my word for it go out there and see for yourself"
The production manager said "Go take a look and see what's going on"
Victor got up saying something about how I better be telling the truth and time was short and blah blah blah. He followed me out of the office, down the hallway and into the darkened arena where he stood frozen as he stared open mouthed at the stage.
"I told you so" I said.
"Oh my God" was all he said. He stared a moment longer as if to see if maybe it was just a dream and it would all go away. It couldn't really be that the opening act was doing some live gay porn sex show and yet it didn't disappear or go away so maybe it might really be happening after all. Mouthing one last "Oh my God" he turned and almost ran back to the production office.
I was right behind him but at the door he suddenly ordered me to wait outside. All I heard as the door swung shut was "we have a problem." It was pretty interesting for the next few minutes watching different people running in and out of the office. I am not sure what was going on in there but there sure was a lot of commotion.
It is important to understand this was not the MTV Prince. This was not the Purple Rain Prince. This was not the fashion icon Prince with the fluffy shirts and the matador/ice skater looking velvet outfits. This was a young Prince just starting to find his way as a live act. He had just released the album "Dirty Mind" and was being hyped by Warner Brothers as this super genius kid but he was still prancing around in the tiniest, tightest hot pants you could possibly imagine and as one crew guy so aptly described him "That boy looks queerer than a football bat!"
Finally I was told to come inside the production office.
Victor said "We need you to go out there and finish setting up your stuff."
I told him I wasn't' going anywhere near that stage. I said that I had to be bent over to do my work and that's when he snuck up on me last time.
He insisted it was no big deal.
I said fine, then he should go out there and bend over and after I see that it is safe I will think about it. The situation was resolved when they pulled one of Rick's personal security guards off of dressing room duty and assigned him to stand behind me and guard my flank.
That is exactly how I finished wiring and loading my effects for that opening show, down on my hands and knees working with a big, mean looking body guard standing right at my feet facing Prince. his arms folded across his chest and a nasty expression on his face.
I saw Prince do a double take when he first saw us but for the rest of his performance he managed to stay pretty much away from us.
The general vibe was that this was going to cool down and that maybe the guy was not as weird as he appeared to be on stage...wrong. The hot pants and booties stayed and Prince himself did nothing to endear himself to anyone.
He would whisk in without a word, sound check only speaking to his band, play his set and vanish into the night without so much as a "goodnight" or a "Kiss my ass".
If you were to see him backstage he was standing by himself in a corner or behind a plant just staring and staring and staring. It was enough to give you the creeps.
One thing was certain, the record company believed in this guy and were supporting him big time. I remember walking through towns on days off and walking past record stores to see their windows filled with Prince displays. Once in a while there would be a Rick James album in the window but if there was it was off to the side. I found this very curious because this was supposed to be a Rick James tour so one day I went into one of these stores and asked the manager what was up with the window.
It was explained to me that Warner Brothers had a whole advance team that was hitting each city about a week before we were to play there. They had promotion materials for the record stores and give a ways for the radio stations and by all appearances were a very organized, professional, and well financed operation. I know when Prince became the artist formally known as Prince he claimed he was a "slave" to the record company. I do not know if he was or was not but what I do know is when he was a struggling new artist the record company spent a ton of money and effort to promote him.
You may ask yourself, as I asked myself, if this advance promotion was so effective why didn't Rick James do the same thing. The answer I was told is that Prince was on Warner Brothers Records where Rick was on Gordy Records and Gordy Records wasn't in the business of spending. They had no problem if Rick wanted to do this on his own and out of his own pocket but they were only interested in money coming in and had no interest in money going out.
It is hard to say for sure if the extra promotion was responsible for ticket sales but the rumor was started that Prince was selling as many or more tickets than Rick. Word was that the people were really coming to see Prince and just staying for Rick James. This seemed exaggerated but either way the people were getting a great show. It seemed like the competition between the two pushed them both into trying to outdo the other.
When Prince did talk to anyone he was demanding little dude. He wanted more lights, more stage time, longer sound checks and when he did not get them he would just take them and the tension between the two acts began to increase as a result.
We were in some city and Warner Brothers was throwing a party for Prince. Some of us that got along with their crew guys were invited by their crew to attend. We were not having any parties thrown for us so we decided to go. The deal was their crew would not tell their boss that they invited us and we would not tell our boss we went.
It was a very strange party in deed. There was food and drinks and music and girls and stuff but something was missing. It was a Prince party but there was no Prince. The record company was in full hype and you could hear people talking about the boy genius and how he played every instrument on his album but still there was no Prince.
Finally he arrived but he came in and just went into his staring thing. He stood off by himself against a wall looking out into the room and in the dim light all you could see were these two big white eyes that were surrounded by black mascara in their zombie like trance. If anyone tried to go near him his bodyguards kept them away.
After he had stood there about a half an hour Prince reached into his pocket and took something out. It looked like he was unfolding a little pocket knife. I tapped one of their crew guys on the shoulder and asked him "Hey, am I seeing right...does Prince have a knife." The guy squinted over in Prince's direction and nonchalantly said "Yeah, you better watch out, it must have a two inch blade on it."
I asked if he was putting me on
"No" the guy said "He makes us sharpen it for him"
I said that now I knew he was putting me on but he swore he wasn't. I continued to watch Prince trying to figure out what he was up to. There were some decorations next to where he was standing. Mostly pictures of him or replicas of his new album cover. Prince turned on these decorations in a few swift movements sliced several of them with his little knife. Then, as he maintained that creepy stare he folded up the knife and put it in his pocket and with that he left the party surrounded by his security. I do not think he spoke a single word the entire time he was there but he sure did teach those decorations a lesson the hard way. It would take at least two or three pieces of tape to repair the damage he had inflicted. I guess they found out who was not to be fooled with that night!

To be continued

and that's the way it really happened

Copyright 2005
John Sherman Watkins

www.rickjames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65



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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
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Post Number: 8903
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Posted From: 24.47.225.121
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 3:57 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are a few glaring problems that I found in the first excerpt.

Firstly, Prince & Andre Cymone were session musicians for a group named 94 East, waxing "Just Another Sucker" in 1977. Those songs were re-released during the '90's. And to be honest, though he likely "borrowed" a few of Rick's moves, due to his experiences & surroundings, Prince was a pretty eclectic cat from the start.

The other thing that jumps off of the page is the fact that Vanity 6 came out 7 months before The Mary Jane Girls did. Prince also had females whom played key roles in his band. Due to that, I don't know if I'd agree with the assessment that there was any "stealing" going on there.

I never quite got the idea of this "rivalry" between them. For most of us, the real rivalry was between Michael & Prince & for two very obvious reasons.

First of all, neither was as raw as Rick was. Their songs had some funk, no doubt, but Rick was throwing down some SERIOUS funk. MJ & Prince's music was more radio-friendly & a bit more glossy. Rick's was a bit rawer & much less polite. Rick's thing was like the street-smart brother who liked to drink a lot, smoke even more & knock boots. Michael was a dancing machine who had a touch of philanthropist & human kindness in his soul. Prince was that nasty, freaky, strange little cousin that just did outlandish shit either get to some attention, or just totally gross you out. And this was a guy who started out as a respectable idol, whom Cynthia Horner used to love putting in "Right On" magazine damn near every month.

I never, ever compared the 2 of them. To me, Rick was more Soul & Funk & while I liked some of Prince's music, he just got too much into Rock for me. In fact, he totally pissed me off with the "Dirty Mind" LP. The brother in the raincoat & high-heeled boots was someone whom I wasn't feeling back in 1980. And songs that referenced having sex with ones sister & manually manipulating certain body parts was something that I just couldn't relate to when I was 20.

Hell, back then we just thought that the boy was strange & had crossed the track in search of riches. He wasn't what was advertised in the beginning. He went from "Sexy Dancer" & "I Wanna Be Your Lover" & a guy riding nude on a horse (which should have been a clue, after all, didn't Lady Godiva do that?), to a guy wearing bikini briefs, an overcoat & pumps. I wasn't feeling no damn "Little Red Corvette" & I wasn't into wearing no damn "Raspberry Berets" either. It took the movie "Purple Rain" to get me back on board with Prince. As I said, I liked some of his music, but too often, too much of it was just inaccessible to me.

The biggest thing that separated him from Rick was the androgyny factor. However rude or crude, you knew that Rick was a man. There was no doubt or question about it. Prince on the other hand was different. He was petite, well manicured & if you removed his moustache, he was prettier & more delicate looking than most women of that day.

Prince was a mind F & he often sent out the signal that though he might like your sister, he might like to be with you just as much. For a man, that is as unsettling as it is distasteful, as most of us like clarity & want to know what side of the fence a brother's on. Prince played with those boundaries & that more than anything is why I never viewed him & Rick as competitors. Michael & Prince...yes. Rick...no.

For both the Rock influences, the sheen of their music, the androgyny factor & the MTV effect, the real rivalry was between Michael & Prince. You had the sense that Rick was ours, Michael & Prince belonged to the masses & weren't necessarily catering to us musically.

Rick did & to me, that is the primary distinction between them.

(Message edited by juicefree20 on June 25, 2007)

(Message edited by juicefree20 on June 25, 2007)
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
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Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 4:00 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The second excerpt sounds more like what I remember hearing, although the writer needs to remember that Prince had already been performing for a few years & had some hits when that tour took place.

I believe that some of Rick memoirs may be clouded or embellished a bit. Rick was living pretty hard back then & who knows what was what. Then again, Rick himself said it best...

"Cocaine's a hell of a drug!"

And sometimes, it kinda clouds the issues & memory just a bit. But the second excerpt sounds very believable.

(Message edited by juicefree20 on June 25, 2007)
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just7numbers (just7numbers)
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Post Number: 2384
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Posted From: 72.175.3.65
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 4:02 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What? Did somebody find some of Rick's sex toys at Paisley Park?!
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Soulful Chris (soulful_chris)
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Username: soulful_chris

Post Number: 192
Registered: 3-2007
Posted From: 70.62.70.144
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 4:35 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice,

Good analysis. I never liked Prince for the very reasons you mentioned.....but the music reasons were always the biggest for me. His music just became an entirely different genre to me and I just didn't take to it. Never did.....even back when he was charting on the r&b lists.

Rick James I always loved, though. I remember a lot of friends comparing the two.....but like you, I'm not sure why.

It's a shame RJ had such a tough personal life.......he was a lot more talented than a lot of people realize......certainly every bit as talented as Prince, if not moreso (I vote for the "moreso").
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Kris Peterson (ribalda)
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Post Number: 1509
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Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 5:45 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was more James Brown and George Clinton that Rick James....but he could be X-rated like Rick James.

Kris
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zebop (zebop)
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Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 9:57 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I read somewhere that Rick "dated" Vanity first and of course she ended up with Prince later...
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Chi Drummer (chidrummer)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 12:08 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not so sure Prince was less "raw" than Rick James. I think, from the beginning, Prince had a totally different sound.

Rick James came out of the box first, in '78, with Mary Jane and You and I. His sound was layered like many of the other funk bands of the day. The rhythm section drove hard, the horns accented and riffed, the vocals were on top. The lyrics were pretty street and the mix wasn't as slick as say, Earth Wind & Fire. Put it all together and Rick was definitely funky.

But the release of Soft and Wet was a different story. To my ears (and my bandmates and others that we knew)the sound of that record was unique. To me, Prince sounded raw and unpolished. Soft and Wet was without horns, counter melodies or 13 other guys playing various parts. It sounded like a demo and that's what made it so intriguing. I Wanna Be Your Lover and Sexy Dancer followed suit. In '80 when Dirty Mind broke that was the shot that started it all. The look, the sound and stage show was nothing like anyone had seen before. The single Uptown introduced a punk sensibility into the funk that wouldn't be picked up on successfully by any one else for almost a year. And there was nothing funkier than, Head. By the following year bands were slashing horn sections and members like Wal-Mart slashes high prices. Synths started popping up everywhere. Everybody's hair changed and the new sound had a label, the Minneapolis Sound. Here comes, The Time, The Family, The Jets, Alexander O'Neal, Vanity 6, Maserati and a host of others. That's called influence and Prince had it in spades almost from the very beginning.

Did Prince steal from Rick James?

Oh yeah. Prince also stole from James Brown, The Isley Brothers, Sly, Ray Charles and everyone else who came before him. What came out, was his own voice. At the time, a startling new voice. The vulgar language, the androgyny, the mix of religion and sex was all calculated to get your attention (surely y'all remember how shocking all that stuff was back then). Once Prince got it he made you laugh, cry, dance and told you some pretty good stories.

Eric Clapton once said, Music is safe as long as Prince is still playing". Man, that's influence and that's the big difference between Mr. Johnson and Mr. Nelson.
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EverythingsAlright (uptight)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 1:14 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Every artist borrows things from other acts. It's what you do with those tools that make you stand apart. Prince borrowed from Sly Stone, James Brown and even the likes of disco icons like Sylvester and visual artists that preceded him. It was all designed to gain attention--whatever it takes to sell more product.
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EverythingsAlright (uptight)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 2:04 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Before Dirty Mind album was released, I was a kid playing Rick's albums at home in Detroit. I had heard my sister's boyfriend describing to my brother the hype on this new artist named Prince. One evening, one of my siblings asked me if I wanted to attend the Rick James / Prince concert at Cobo Arena. Without question I said, "Yes!" (Looking back, I feel priveledged they even asked me!)

Rick was nearing the peak of his career, and the Prince band was opening act. The girls in the audience thought thought Prince was all cute and innocent, singing "I Wanna Be Your Lover." And when Rick came on with his horn section, background singers and light show, I cheered for Rick. My sister knew little about Rick's association with Motown and said, "Oh, he's on Motown..?" Rick would light up a joint and sing about "Mary Jane" and curse like a sailor. My sisters still talk about how much of a turn-off that was for them.

Somehow, it turned into "the battle of the bands." An emcee came out after Rick's show and conducted a poll with the audience to guage who had won. By measure of applause and cheers, it was clear Prince had won.

I thought this was just unfair.

Years later, I heard on RadioScope (does this radio show still air?) a report about how promoters would bill two funk acts together and pit the two bands against each other to build tension in the act. The report gave interesting examples about the promoters knocking on the dressing room door of one band and lying to them about how badly the other band was talking about them. The promoter would then turn around and do the same to the other band.

In turn the bands amp up the adrenaline on stage to try and out-perform each other. Somehow this would translate into more ticket sales.

All I know is if I paid money to go to a concert, I want to enjoy BOTH bands. Both bands were great, and I would continue to buy albums by both artists. Maybe I'm too young to remember how the show was advertised, but I am still wondering where this emcee came from at the end of the show... Maybe it was the concert promoter himself!
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oli67 (ollie)
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Post Number: 464
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Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 2:17 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

R.J. & P. R. N. = equally talented
R.J. & P. R. N. = copied the hell out of every artists before them
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cOzmic (cozmic)
6-Zenith
Username: cozmic

Post Number: 643
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 80.56.18.229
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 4:02 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

QUOTE :
______________________________ _____
Funkyone D.J. Dollar Bil (funkyone)
5-Doyen
Username: funkyone

Post Number: 289
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 209.148.182.206
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 3:29 pm:

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
Two great artists with two great(at the time) egos.
I imagine Prince would tell a different version of events and had the advantage of not having his brain clouded by drugs.

(Message edited by funkyone on June 25, 2007)
______________________________ _______________



And the whole autobiography was written by Rick while he was high-basing on crack ?! ..... shuuuuuureee

Hey , no-one's perfect and makes mistakes in life , like if Rick has been one of the ONLY exceptions who used drugs while in the biz , and therefore that's always gonna be the usual suspects and the reason how people choose to remember him ??!!
Any idea why Marvin Gaye escaped the US to stay for awhile in Belgium , Europe ? .... healing from his drug-use was one of them.
I don't wanna pun those artists at all because i admire what impact they've had in music , but i'm just stating the facts.
We all know how Jimmi Hendrix experienced with drugs , hence , his sudden death was the reason of it ... what a tragic loss of such a major force in music history.
It's because of Rick his trouble he got into that people who are not so much into his music tend to see only that side of him , even though Rick himself admitted that the drugs were destructive for him ... that's how he was ... telling it straight.

Peace ,
cOzmic
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Funkyone D.J. Dollar Bil (funkyone)
5-Doyen
Username: funkyone

Post Number: 293
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 209.148.182.206
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 11:05 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cOz,

Not trying to start a thing,just stating a fact that before,during and after the events RJ is talking about,he was F**ked out of his mind on drugs.
If he was/wasn't stoned while "writing" his auto-biography,doesn't make a difference.
These are the memories of a drug addled brain.
I loved RJ's music and he was one of my earliest exposures to Funk.I was sad when he passed,but you must be sharing the same pipe if you don't believe that his brain and memories weren't permanently altered from all those years of abuse.
Prince had his moments of stupidity too,but seems to have matured out of the party lifestyle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =DzW6wkSBmyQ
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JAI NANCE (rhythm66)
6-Zenith
Username: rhythm66

Post Number: 3998
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 138.238.41.117
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 2:04 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I NEVER KNEW THAT THOSE TWO HAD EVER SHARED A STAGE,BUT FOR SOME STRANGE REASON...I BELIEVE RICK!
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Wonder B (wonder_b)
6-Zenith
Username: wonder_b

Post Number: 1545
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 90.34.215.77
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 6:15 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am halfway through the book and I laughed hard when I read that part with Prince.. iT's soooo Rick...

True or not, the way he tells the story just cracks me up!

I found a big mistake in the book on page 147... under the pic it says Rick and Angela Bofill when it is in fact Phyllis Hyman... how can you let something like this get printed LOL
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sdl (sdl)
5-Doyen
Username: sdl

Post Number: 177
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 71.176.160.79
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 12:07 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hadn't been around for a while & just saw this thread. Someone mentioned Prince stole from Sly Stone but why is it that no one ever mentions how Sly Stone stole from Shuggie Otis! Shuggie is so very overlooked and gets no respect.

Also not only did Prince steal from Rick's stage show but he stole away Vanity from Rick's girl group to make his own copy cat girl group.

Don't get me wrong - I love Prince dearly, but he did "steal" from many to create his own style as most artist do.

Is this book out now is stores that the quotes are extracted from?

Thanks

(Message edited by sdl on June 27, 2007)
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cOzmic (cozmic)
6-Zenith
Username: cozmic

Post Number: 644
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 83.118.176.167
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 5:28 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

QUOTE :
______________________________ ____
Funkyone D.J. Dollar Bil (funkyone)
5-Doyen
Username: funkyone

Post Number: 293
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 209.148.182.206
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 11:05 am:

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
cOz,

Not trying to start a thing,just stating a fact that before,during and after the events RJ is talking about,he was F**ked out of his mind on drugs.
If he was/wasn't stoned while "writing" his auto-biography,doesn't make a difference.
These are the memories of a drug addled brain.
I loved RJ's music and he was one of my earliest exposures to Funk.I was sad when he passed,but you must be sharing the same pipe if you don't believe that his brain and memories weren't permanently altered from all those years of abuse.
Prince had his moments of stupidity too,but seems to have matured out of the party lifestyle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =DzW6wkSBmyQ
______________________________ _____________

Agree partly with you there Funkyone , that drugs can indeed do that to one's mind.
But with all due respect ... fact of the matter is that WE as outsiders have never ever been around his private life to be able stating the fact how much or critical his drug-use was.
And yes , he landed in jail because of it , but that unfortunate moment goes along with false statements too.
And a few other online-sites where i saw people post their opinion about Rick , this unfortunate moment and his other conflicts + troubles is what keeps topping the surface in their minds & thoughts ... his music seemed less important ... ignorance is a bliss ! ( in those cases )

A close fan of Rick told about their correspondence with letters in the recent years , and the fan was reading deep and intelligent thoughts of Rick , which didn't give the impression of vague thoughts.

If you check more stories of "Pyro" John Sherman Watkins , who was the stage-fx specialist-roadie on most of Rick's tours , then you can read how sharp Rick was with checking & controlling the set-up of every tour he did.

If his mind was so drugged , then why could he still describe ( let alone remember ! ) that specific detailed moment ( like in the top-post ) about Rod Stewart and his wife Alana ?!

A good friend of mine has been a serious drug-addict once ( before i met him ) but he healed from it and became a very healthy + fit person.
Through all the years i never experienced any signs of drug-damaged interaction during our many conversations.

I'll conclude this here with a post which Rick himself once posted on his own site-forum , because we as outsiders can merely guess about an artists private-life and their thoughts :

________________
therealrickjames
RickJames.com Official Member posted 03-14-2003 08:11 AM
------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
" I just happened to read all the critiques about what my movie should and shouldn't be about. Would you like to hear my point of view, too bad. You're gonna hear it anyway. My life is nothing I'm proud of or sad about. My movie will be about trials, tribulations, addiction, love, racism, drugs, God, children, sex, violence, anger, music, music, music, white, black, green, gold, yellow, colors, colors, colors, colors. Magic, religion, fortitude, blackness, sensitivity, gangsters, pimps, ho's, squares, people, people, people, drugs, addiction, integration, copulation, affirmations, angels, saints, sinners, friends, enemies, mothers, life, life, life. Comedy, tears, fears, anger, pride, suppression, poetry, words, words, words. It'll be my life. Your life, our life on this planet, on some planet, any planet, happy! Alone amongst thousands screaming your name, claiming your fame, and you, high on a throne in a smokey room, with a tear in our eye and a bank full of money, ,laughing, crying, wishing for death, losing the will to live. Wanting the will to love. To be invisible, to be seen, to be heard, yet to be silent. Like the Angels that have been with me before the beginning of my time. No time. The movie will be about life, my life. Watered down, surely you jest. have I ever let you down? And I am the water bearer. **** the Star. **** the Cast. **** the Crew. Trust me. The movie, the story, is about me. It's about you. It's about God. Thank God that there will be a tomorrow. And maybe, just maybe you might see the movie with you as the cast. Get real, all of you. I love you! This aint Prince, this aint Micheal, this aint Bobby Brown. This is a Nubian King who's trying to live his life doing the right thing, making music. Makin' love. Makin' joy. **** the dumb shit. Stop trippin'. You all sound like Hollywood. Critics. The Rick James movie aint gonna be nothin' but the real mutha****in deal. Just like the songs I write. Just like the words I sing. Just like the way I bow down to Allah every morning and pray. See the movie. It's over. Next show, maybe tomorrow, tune in! "
___________________________
http://rickjames.com/ubb_posts /post1-page2.htm


(Message edited by cOzmic on June 27, 2007)
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 8906
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.47.225.121
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 5:41 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SDL,

Now I'm confused here.

I always believed that JoJo started out as one of Rick's background singers before The Mary Jane Girls were formed. I never saw Rick perform live back then, but as far as the records went, it was always about Rick & The Stone City Band. As for the ladies, I thought that his back-up girls, Jackie Ruffin, Lisa Sarna, Tabby Johnson & later, Jo Jo McDuffie were named "The Colored Girls".

If memory serves me correctly, the Mary Jane Girls debut LP was initially meant to be Jo Jo's solo LP. As the story went, Rick having already produced a female star in Teena Marie, was supposed to develop a girl group for Motown, which hadn't happened. When they heard the tracks that were recorded on JoJo with background, Motown believed that Rick had finally delivered.

Enter The Mary Jane Girls.

I simply don't remember hearing anything about The Mary Jane Girls as a recording entity before 1983. I'll have to check my liner notes for "Street Songs" (though one of my copies from back then had no liner notes), but it wasn't until the 1982 "Throwin' Down" LP, that he acknowledged an entity called "The Mary Jane Band".

The "Mary Jane Band" were "Colored Girls", Lisa, Tabby & Jo Jo, who was the only member who became a part of TMJG. That fact makes me believe that Jo Jo was intended to be a solo act. If not, then where did the other girls of TMJG come from & since Rick had his "Mary Jane Band", why were they necessary at all? More than that, I've never seen any mention of any association between them & Rick until their debut LP. Vanity either.

As far as Vanity 6 is concerned, I'd always heard that Vanity wasn't a part of the initial line-up. From what I recall, she was pretty much an unknown actress/model, when Prince met her & replaced Jamie Shoop from the group that was originally meant to be called "The Hookers". I've never heard of any previous MUSICAL alliance between her & Rick.

Now I've never seen any, but if you have any info about the Vanity-Rick connection, please help a brother out. I'd sure hate to think that I've had the wrong info about this for all of these years. But then again, it wouldn't be the first time.

A famous DJ had me believing that Janice McClain was Alton's daughter. Had me believing it from 1979 until 2004, when the record was set straight here in our forum.
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cOzmic (cozmic)
6-Zenith
Username: cozmic

Post Number: 645
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 80.56.18.229
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 3:34 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)





From the Blues & Soul-archives ( UK )
-Issue # 382 ( May 31 - June 13 , 1983 )

Experts from the article : RICK'S CHICKS
( Written by John E. Abbey )

Although Prince may have drawn first blood by catapulting Vanity 6 inside the winner's circle , Rick James has at least equalised with the similary dramatic runaway success of his girl-group , The Mary Jane Girls.
As any long-term reader of this magazine will verify , Rick's "angles" have actually been in the formulative stage far longer than Vanity 6 and so any novice scribe accusing Rick of "copying Prince's idea" ( and i've seen that written twice already ! , JA ) is way , way off the truth.
Although the actual line-up of Jo-Jo McDuffie , Cheri Wells , Candi Ghant and Maxi Wuletich is relatively new , the idea for the Mary Jane Girls goes back almost five years and , in fact , Jo-Jo has been one of Rick's background-singers for almost that long and she is the anchor for the group whose first single success , "Candy Man" , is climbing all the way to the top of the charts the world over.
The group's name could have two derivations , of course. Firstly , there is the fact that Rick's second hit-single was tagged "Mary Jane". However the more likely source is that Mary Jane is another word for marijuana and since Rick's admissions a on that subject are well documented , we'll merely leave it at that.

Before we really get to know the Mary Jane Girls , let's clear up the Vanity 6 comparisons once and for all.
"Actually , we really aren't like them at all" , Joanna "Jo-Jo" McDuffie immediately points out. "They have a very different concept and they are doing what they believe in and we are doing what we believe in. And they're very good ! We are into Funk & Roll and they're closer to Rock. There's also a big , big difference in the lyrics we sing. And Rick and Prince are two totally different people. We respect both of them , of course , and we expect comparisons at first. Oh , and another big difference ... we wear more clothes !"

If you've already heard the Mary Jane Girls' album , you'll be aware of the sharp contrast between side one ( definitely funk & roll ) and side two , a far more varied example of the four girls' vocal ability and of Rick's creativity.
"Well , we're really happy ... ecstatic , actually ! ... with the album, " Jo-Jo enthuses. "We are also pleased that it's moving fast and selling because that means the people like it. The fact that we have a mixture of songs is good because it shows our versatility. Right now , we are working on our show so that we can be ready to go on the road with Rick this summer. And that's something we're looking forward to. We are also expecting to do some dates without Rick too , by the way. It's especially exiting because it'll be the first time that we've been out there as the Mary Jane Girls. What can you expect ? Just our very best ! Just like it is on the album."............................................................
.............................................................................................................
.............................................................................................................
Actually , since the Mary Jane Girls is Rick James' concept and since he wrote the material and produced and arranged the album , his contribution is significant.
"My concept was to create female characters women could identify with musically. I wanted to form a group that exuded the same sort of theatrics and fun that i'd established with the Rick James character," Rick says.
"The whole thing is Rick's idea," Jo-Jo picks up the theme and continues. "He had his own idea even of what he wanted us to look like but the really clever thing about it all is that he was able to get over his concept from the woman's point of view."


(Message edited by cOzmic on June 27, 2007)
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
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Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 8907
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.47.225.121
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 3:59 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What many either don't know, or have forgotten is that around 1976, Rick recorded "Mary Jane" as a B-Side of a Polydor single made by the ORIGINAL Stone City Band.

I have his 1974 A&M single "My Mama", but I'd sure love to hear the single that he recorded with Hot Lips, as well as the original version of "Mary Jane".
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cOzmic (cozmic)
6-Zenith
Username: cozmic

Post Number: 646
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 80.56.18.229
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 4:34 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hot Lips ? ... from Mash ? , lol.

I also remember reading in a Prince-book with his career-overview that Denise "Vanity" Matthews was a then-girlfriend of Rick , before she went to the Minneapolis-camp , but i'll have to check some references to get that absolutely confirmed.

Btw , here's another interesting detail of the MJG's :

Female-singer Tegan Taylor from the Uk-female quartet , The Pin�ps , had a brief appearance with the MJG's ... not long after that replaced by the blonde Maxi Wuletich.
If Tegan actually recorded with them is unknown ... maybe there exist unreleased tracks on the shelves.
The only proof which there is are two photos :

- one is printed in the cd-booklet of their first album
- the other one is online at Tegan Taylor's site :

http://tegantaylor.com/images/Mary%20Jane%20girls.jpg

Tegan in the link above , @ the 2nd from the left ...

( http://tegantaylor.com/photos.html )




... and the later replaced Maxi on the far-right.



( ps. Ralph , is there any possibility to change or to adapt the "upload attachment" to a larger accessable number of pixels ? ... i experienced again in this posting that it was absolutely impossible to upload it , while i have seen other posts with much bigger-sized pictures ... i can't figure out the reason behind that.
Thanx in advance for your effort ;)
cOzmic )


(Message edited by cOzmic on June 27, 2007)
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 8909
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.47.225.121
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 5:02 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cOzmic:

Oddly, in her bio, she doesn't mention TMJG at all.

As far as posting images, what program are you using to resize your pictures? If you have a inexpensive program like Photoshop Elements 2 or 3, here's what you do...

Open your file, at the top of the program screen click on "Image" & scroll down to "Resize" & from the drop down box, click on "Image Size". When the box pops up, double-click the field "Width" & change the number to 500. Make sure that the "Constrain Proportions" box is checked. If not, you'll likely end up with a picture that looks like a caricature.

Go back to the top & of the program screen & click file & select "Save For Web". When the page comes up, you'll see the different settings options. Make sure that the "Optimized" box is checked. Directly under that box is the "Quality" option. Click on the arrow & adjust the number that will give you the best quality image, that won't exceed 50 kb. Shoot for 46 or 47 kbs, because sometimes 48 or 49 kbs will end up exceeding the 50 kb limit.

Hope that this helps!
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John Lester (theboyfromxtown)
6-Zenith
Username: theboyfromxtown

Post Number: 2322
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 81.159.180.86
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 5:28 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did you know you can download, new from Prince, "Guitar" for free

http://blueroom.o2.co.uk/2007/ the-o2/prince-intro.jsp
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cOzmic (cozmic)
6-Zenith
Username: cozmic

Post Number: 647
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 83.118.176.167
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 3:09 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Juice !
Thanx for your help bro ;)
I'm currently surfing the net via internet-shops , so i have no clue which programs they use , lol.
But i copied & pasted your info to my mailbox ... once again many thanx for your cool help ;)

Btw , who's bio did you refer to ? Jo-Jo's ? or Vanity's ? ...

L8er !
cOz


(Message edited by cOzmic on June 28, 2007)

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