Soulful DetroitArchives - January 2007 � You'll Never Change on Detroit's Lupine? Previous Next

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sideburnslim (sideburnslim)
5-Doyen
Username: sideburnslim

Post Number: 237
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.62.10.57
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 8:19 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a nagging question for forum experts. The Detroit Cobras cover a song called "You'll Never Change" on their new c.d. "Tied and True." The song is credited to Willie Schofield and Robert West, and Lupine is listed as the publisher. I checked out the Anorak's Corner label listing for Lupine, but the song was not listed. I am wondering if anyone can help me solve the mystery as to who recorded the song and on what label they released it?
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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 7933
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.81.20.189
Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 10:45 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bettye Lavette sang the song. I don't know if she had a release on it. If it wasn't on Lupine (per the discography), then it must have been released on Atlantic. I have a few of her Atlantic Records, but didn't find it among them.

I can't know if she sang it first. Robert West often had more than one of his artists record his songs.
Lupine Music was one of West's music publishing companies (after Higgins-West and Flick Music). Not all songs published by that firm were released on Lupine Records. West had many different labels, plus working agreements with Atlantic Records,Chess Records United Artists Records, and other labels. He also sold/leased songs to other production companies.

I didn't see the song among The Falcons releases on UA or Atlantic, or among Wilson Pickett's Double-L or early Atlantic releases. But there were many Lupine Music songs on various small independent productions, scattered on many labels. I can't remember them all, to check. Furthermore, West or his wife may have bought out Higgins' estate, and changed all the Higgins-West songs to Lupine (they may have changed the Flick songs to Lupine, as well).

I don't recognise the title as being by a song I know by any other artist. But that doesn't mean much. Maybe it was also released by Eddie Floyd on Atlantic, and I don't have it?

This is a major reason why I wish ASCAP and BMI would cross-reference record releases of songs in their song/writer/publisher database. they have a few stray releases listed, but they make up less than .001 percent of the songs listed (virtually none).


(Message edited by Robb_K on April 25, 2007)

(Message edited by Robb_K on April 25, 2007)

(Message edited by Robb_K on April 25, 2007)

(Message edited by Robb_K on April 25, 2007)
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Johnny Raven (johnny_raven)
5-Doyen
Username: johnny_raven

Post Number: 337
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.134
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 1:12 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was released as Atlantic 2198 in 1963 by Betty LaVett...it's also on her "Child Of The 70's (Atlantic Recordings)" CD which came out last year.
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sideburnslim (sideburnslim)
5-Doyen
Username: sideburnslim

Post Number: 238
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.62.10.57
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:47 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks a lot! I appreciate the info.
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imnokid (imnokid)
4-Laureate
Username: imnokid

Post Number: 129
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 68.37.238.185
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 8:37 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw this post and mentioned it to Bettye. It was her follow up single to My Man, and she said it was written specifically for her.
KK
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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 7934
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.81.21.209
Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 8:54 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, I'mNoKid!
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Graham Finch (acooolcat)
6-Zenith
Username: acooolcat

Post Number: 1106
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 211.72.233.8
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 2:29 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was recorded in United Sound and The Falcons (the Lupine group) sang background. It's Don Davis on guitar.
A great record!

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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 7941
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.81.21.233
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 11:41 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Falcons were also with Atlantic at that time as was Eddie Floyd as a solo artist. Robert West had a production agreement with them.

At that time, Atlantic also had a pressing/distribution deal with Wilbur Golden's Correc-Tone Records, and Ollie McLaughlin (for Barbara Lewis). So, they were working hard to piggyback onto Motown's success with Detroit talent (and get their share of "The Detroit Sound").
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imnokid (imnokid)
4-Laureate
Username: imnokid

Post Number: 131
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 68.37.238.185
Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 11:53 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bettye says that West & Schofield owned the Falcons name, and gave it to a group called The Fabulous Playboys, consisting of
Sonny Monroe(lead), Alton Bart Hollowel, Johnny Alvin & James Gibson. James is deceased.
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Graham Finch (acooolcat)
6-Zenith
Username: acooolcat

Post Number: 1108
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 211.72.233.8
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 1:05 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I refered "the Lupine group" I had forgotten that the 'Playboys' also recorded for the label before going to Big Wheel... I meant the original Falcons group that used to have Pickett and Floyd in.
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imnokid (imnokid)
4-Laureate
Username: imnokid

Post Number: 132
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 68.37.238.185
Posted on Monday, April 30, 2007 - 6:52 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But it was NOT the Pickett/Floyd group who sang background. It was the Sonny Monroe led group.
KK
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Graham Finch (acooolcat)
6-Zenith
Username: acooolcat

Post Number: 1109
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 211.72.233.9
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 9:22 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was the remaining members of that first group.
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imnokid (imnokid)
4-Laureate
Username: imnokid

Post Number: 133
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 68.37.238.185
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 6:14 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know if the guys I mentioned were remaining members of the first group. I just know that the guys I mentioned are the guys that Bettye told me sang on the record.
KK
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Graham Finch (acooolcat)
6-Zenith
Username: acooolcat

Post Number: 1111
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 211.72.233.8
Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 8:55 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also got my info' direct from Betty - she said it wasn't Sonny Monroe and the guys.
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imnokid (imnokid)
4-Laureate
Username: imnokid

Post Number: 134
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 68.37.238.185
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 12:23 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I'm her husband, and we just talked about it the day I saw this thread. And she says it WAS the Sonny led group.
KK
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Graham Finch (acooolcat)
6-Zenith
Username: acooolcat

Post Number: 1113
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 211.72.233.8
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:33 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please give Betty my warmest regards, imnokid. It's a great performance by her on this recording.
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imnokid (imnokid)
4-Laureate
Username: imnokid

Post Number: 135
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 68.37.238.185
Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2007 - 10:59 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will. Yeah, not bad for a 16 year old, right?
She has re-invented the song for the stage as can be heard on her Let Me Down Easy Live import CD from 2000.
KK

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