Soulful DetroitMowtown Topics - Archives II � Strange Fruit:: Abolish The "N" Word Previous Next

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divalish (divalish)
5-Doyen
Username: divalish

Post Number: 198
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 71.33.152.202
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 7:44 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://abolishthenword.com/
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dexter (dexter)
6-Zenith
Username: dexter

Post Number: 454
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 86.141.248.26
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 8:13 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know what to say here. BTW be warned there are images in this video that may upset people as they certainly upset me :-(
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divalish (divalish)
5-Doyen
Username: divalish

Post Number: 199
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 71.33.152.202
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 9:24 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi dexter, before i'm attacked for posting this, i probably should justify that undeniably, motown's impact on the events during the 60s was supremely powerful. also, i think this is one point of the video, to shock us out of complacency. hopefully these images can be absorbed into our subconscious and propel us to be mindful of how we interact with others as we make our daily rounds. hopefully these images will compel us to take a personal stand to confront the hate when we experience it and let others know that this is not okay. i'm not just speaking in black and white, although that is certainly still very relevant.
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splanky (splanky)
6-Zenith
Username: splanky

Post Number: 628
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 72.89.108.202
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 9:25 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Still, they need to be seen.
Unfortunately a lot of those who need to be educated or reminded won't be....and
as I've said before and most are tired of hearing
that word isn't going anywhere anytime soon....
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dexter (dexter)
6-Zenith
Username: dexter

Post Number: 456
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 86.141.248.26
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 9:32 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Being a white guy from the UK who grew up adoring black music & culture I just can never understand why a persons colour, race, creed or sexual orientation should make them an object of hate. I was a late comer to Billie and Strange Fruit. It still gives me a chill whenever I hear it.
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divalish (divalish)
5-Doyen
Username: divalish

Post Number: 200
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 207.77.98.16
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 10:16 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

those of us who understand and have compassion cannot be complacent, we must act. when hate crosses your daily threshold, don't be silent, confront it. i think this is the point of this video. a word has never caused anyone harm. it's the intent behind it that can be dangerous. i've often said when we get to the place as a world community when EVERYONE can use the word nigger without it having any negative significance, this is when we will have experienced true progress.
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Bruce Huston (brucehto)
5-Doyen
Username: brucehto

Post Number: 298
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 74.116.111.99
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 12:58 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's fascinating to compare Billie Holiday's original version of "Strange Fruit" with Nina Simone's cover some twenty years later. Billie's take on it has a certain anger simmering beneath a deceptively calm surface, as befits the 1940's (after all, how much could she get away with back then?). Nina's interpretation has all the fire and the fury we associate with her stance, as befits the 1960's.

As for the 'n' word, why do I hear it from black rap performers and their fans? Have they redefined the word to suit their own moral code? (When it comes to rap "music," I guess I'm really too old to know what I'm talking about!)
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divalish (divalish)
5-Doyen
Username: divalish

Post Number: 201
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 207.77.98.16
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 1:15 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the word nigger, and i refuse to say the "n" word, has many meanings. in the AA culture it can be a term of affection. this usage was way before hip-hop probably back dating back to the times of slavery.
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daddyacey (daddyacey)
6-Zenith
Username: daddyacey

Post Number: 890
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 161.185.1.100
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 3:46 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To clarify "it can be a term of affection" , It was in an ironic sense ,and among African Americans. An inside joke so to speak because we knew that we were not what the word intended.
None the less , the word is still offensive and it will take generations before the damage is resolved by its use.
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divalish (divalish)
5-Doyen
Username: divalish

Post Number: 202
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 207.77.98.16
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:52 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the word doesn't offend me daddyacey.

i also wouldn't classify the way we use it as a inside joke, but more in a manner to diffuse it's power.
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splanky (splanky)
6-Zenith
Username: splanky

Post Number: 629
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 72.89.110.59
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:57 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That day you talk about, divalish, when everyone can use it without negative significance will NEVER come. Yes, it was in use before hip-hop, it's been used on a number of soul, r&b and blues
recordings, even Motown tracks and some of my favorite artists are frequent users of the word but that still doesn't sanitize it to me. Because
the self hate is and has always been there, even when we think we are being cool or hip. And as I
think I said before the same people who use it in what they say is affectionate terms use it as
a slur when they are angry or enraged with the person they are talking to. This whole let's use it til we change it's meaning is, excuse my language, the biggest bunch of bullshit ass cop-out propaganda that black people in America have
subjected themselves to since we walked off the plantation. I don't see a recovery for that anywhere on the horizon. I gave up a long time ago trying to get people to stop using it, but I
can't pretend I think it's okay.
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divalish (divalish)
5-Doyen
Username: divalish

Post Number: 203
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 207.77.98.16
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 6:34 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i'm an optimist, i never say never splanky. your points are taken and are valid, but mind are too.

i will take this a step further, and challenge our anglo friends who despise racism, sexism, etc., to actively negate the bile - even when there are stakes, i.e. on the job, etc. - black folk can't change it; change must come from with y'all's culture. if you ain't part of the solution, you're part of the problem, ya know.
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John Lester (theboyfromxtown)
6-Zenith
Username: theboyfromxtown

Post Number: 2375
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 81.159.136.51
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 6:48 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I couldn't watch it I'm afraid. It was just too much for me, even after the first picture. I couldn't turn it off quick enough when the next picture came on.

I want to say this and Dexter touched on it. Over here in the UK, it seems we are considered "colour blind" - we may still have our problems but they are few and far between - would you guys across the pond in the good ole USA think that is better or worse? You have the benefit of hindsight to consider.
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JTF1972 (jtf1972)
3-Pundit
Username: jtf1972

Post Number: 51
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 67.101.77.34
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 7:18 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The usage of the word as a term of affection must stem from an attempt to remove the word from being used exclusively as a hurtful term. If I can use it in a manner that is not painful, then maybe it will remove the sting of the word itself. Unfortunately, most people that use the word in a derogatory manner simply laugh at those who use it in an affectionate manner.

I do not like the word for all that it represents.

These fools who use it every day as a term of affection would never have stepped up to Malcolm or Martin and said "My nigga!" If many of them knew who Fredrick Douglas was, they would know that he would have definitely frowned on using it.

Until we educate our youth properly they will continue to emulate the ongoing 21st century minstrel show that we all know too well.
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marxthespot (marxthespot)
6-Zenith
Username: marxthespot

Post Number: 862
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.234.142.112
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 8:03 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The "term of endearment" argument for why some folks use the word while others shouldn't is BS. It's like when a parent says to a child (or Bush says to the country) "do as I say, not as I do."
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divalish (divalish)
5-Doyen
Username: divalish

Post Number: 204
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 71.33.152.202
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 9:25 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

as most things in life, the word is not (pun intended) merely black and white. this is an important and long overdue discussion. the fact that we are having it is encouraging.

johnlester, i must say that the fact that you were afraid to watch is the reason you must watch. what is the reason you are fearful? i BEG you to ask this of yourself.

colorblind? utter bullshit.
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jillfoster (jillfoster)
6-Zenith
Username: jillfoster

Post Number: 528
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 4.180.186.159
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 1:50 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some people feel that with slurs of all kinds... if you take them and use them as a term of affection, you take away their power. Words DO change meaning, I mean what did the word "gay" mean in 1850? Interesting concept, not sure how it works in a practicial sense.
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divalish (divalish)
5-Doyen
Username: divalish

Post Number: 205
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 71.33.152.202
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 3:34 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

which people feel this way jillfoster? can you be more specific?
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couscous (couscous)
6-Zenith
Username: couscous

Post Number: 681
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 76.213.155.142
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 10:01 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

johnlester this may be ugly but it part of our history and turning it of or looking the other way dont do much good and the uk aint colorblind and neither is france or germany or any other country.
i recall my mama was working for white folk back in the 50's and they was always going on every day about how they was color blind and my mom said to me yeah they all color blind till we try and move next door to them. lol. divalish i raise my children not to be using the nigger word but i made sure they know darn well what it mean and they all know the history of the word. my kids then take me and my grandkids to the king center in atlanta and i gave them all a good old lesson on growing up black in the days before the civil rights movement. what bother me now is you got white kids and black kids and mexican kids all calling each other nigger and they all too darn dumb to even know the history of the word.
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divalish (divalish)
5-Doyen
Username: divalish

Post Number: 206
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 71.33.152.202
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 6:15 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wonderful couscous. it's so important that our youth know their history. they must learn that there is a foundation, and that they will garner strength from that foundation. to make this post motown centric - this is a majorally important aspect of motown that is beyond entertainment.
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couscous (couscous)
6-Zenith
Username: couscous

Post Number: 687
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 76.213.155.142
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 11:59 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you right divalish. i alwyas tell the youngsters about the supremes and motown when i talk about our struggles and how motown and diana and berry and the supremes was important for civil rights.
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jillfoster (jillfoster)
6-Zenith
Username: jillfoster

Post Number: 531
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 4.84.161.212
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 12:30 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Divalish, I've heard activists of all kinds say things such as that.... in interviews, etc. Many people do think that by using the word in a non-negative way, you are taking posession of term and neutralizing the power that it has over people. As far as I'm concerned, I don't mind being called a slur unless it's meant in a mean spirited way. I'm one that always feel you should "Take things as theyr'e meant". If a person means it as a term of affection, take it as such, if they don't... then you can get upset.
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Bob Olhsson (bob_olhsson)
5-Doyen
Username: bob_olhsson

Post Number: 375
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 67.32.211.226
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 1:57 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My problem with ethnic slurs is not their history or intent, it's their divisiveness.

Divisiveness is a cancer that corrupts our identities and stands directly in the way of freedom. It's good to study history and to be proud of our ethnic backgrounds however it's lots more useful to study what Dr. King taught. He made everybody who listened to him utterly proud of being his contemporary.

The fruits of his teaching are eroding every day because of divisiveness.

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